Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
xbl

Israel And The Palestinians

Recommended Posts

if israel shows any weakness to people that chuck some rockets into it,it would only encourage others to join,so in the long run it will keep israelies safe

From where I'm standing it looks like the exact opposite. Every disproportionate action breeds more resentment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From where I'm standing it looks like the exact opposite. Every disproportionate action breeds more resentment.

sorry my answer was vague,what i mean it doesnt encourage a larger scale response ie a league of arab nations again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From where I'm standing it looks like the exact opposite. Every disproportionate action breeds more resentment.

I said the same in my orignal post. Has history taught them nothing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
about as good as gets in the area though

One of the problems is what sort of govenments will come out of any peace process. As has been seen elsewhere you cannot just stick in a western style democracy and hope it will work.

The UN for all its faults must be more active in seeking a lasting peace.This problem has been going on for decades. Maybe Obama will give any peace process a new impetus,but for everyman seeking peace there is one happy to see conflict continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry my answer was vague,what i mean it doesnt encourage a larger scale response ie a league of arab nations again

Ah. Well, yes, that is probably the case, to be fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry my answer was vague,what i mean it doesnt encourage a larger scale response ie a league of arab nations again

TBH my opinion is that a Union of Arab Nations determined to get rid of Israel is probably as far from a reality as it ever will be.

I also don't think that has anything to do with their disproportionate response to things. The neighbouring states are either too weak to do anything about Israel (Lebanon) or too moderate and in the West's pocket (Jordan) or making too much money from Israel's allies (Saudi Arabia).

The truth is that there is very little stopping the Israelis from pursuing a peace process and persisting with reasonable measures to guarantee its safety beyond the fact that they don't want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the problems is what sort of govenments will come out of any peace process. As has been seen elsewhere you cannot just stick in a western style democracy and hope it will work.

It might have done though. A few yeas back they had free and fair elections. International observers declared them to be so ( Except in Jerusalem of course), but unfortunately they voted for Hamas. Naturally we responded by blockading them, cutting off all aid and Israel tried to starve then out. And so spelled the end of any slim prospect of a negotiated solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In what way?

You repeated the phrase 'Final Solution' twice, obviously referring to the Holocaust. You can't compare what is happening in Gaza with the 'Final Solution'.

Yes. Hamas knew what they were doing. Will the attacks keep Israels citzens safe, or will they make things worse?

Well, if the attacks destroy the infrastructure that has been used to launch these attacks and reduces the number of rockets fired it will. Hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens live within firing distance of these rockets, I don't think any state would be expected to live with that sort of threat to it's people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe Obama will give any peace process a new impetus,but for everyman seeking peace there is one happy to see conflict continue.

I doubt it. The Israel lobby is very powerful in the States and any softening of policy on Palestine will not go down well with them. No, more of the same I am afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I said the same in my orignal post. Has history taught them nothing?

I think it's taught them to be more ruthless and terrible than the other guy to be fair. It's taught them strength through force and never to concede. Which is not an unforgivable reaction to the last 100 years of jewish history....

After all they are a nation of 5 million surrounded by 100 million likely opponents. Israel is small, they don't have the territory to fall back on, they have to win every battle they fight, better then to be disproportianate, so as to demonstrate a willingness to their arab neighbours to defend themselves at all times.

Obviously such a reaction will only amplify the problem with the palestinians, but for the Israelis, it's an acceptable trade off....

Edited by renton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TBH my opinion is that a Union of Arab Nations determined to get rid of Israel is probably as far from a reality as it ever will be.

thats because they have learned not to mess with israel the hard way

I also don't think that has anything to do with their disproportionate response to things. The neighbouring states are either too weak to do anything about Israel (Lebanon) or too moderate and in the West's pocket (Jordan) or making too much money from Israel's allies (Saudi Arabia).

again because they have learned the hard way

The truth is that there is very little stopping the Israelis from pursuing a peace process and persisting with reasonable measures to guarantee its safety beyond the fact that they don't want to.

somebody launching rockets into israel might have something to do with it

Edited by doulikefish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's far from certain that the latest rocket attacks - which, while I completely condemn, are pretty modest when compared to the retaliation - are being launched by Hamas. They didn't stop the launches, true, but are we not getting close to collective punishment if we assume that the launches were orchestrated by Hamas?

Israel lacks any sense of proportionality, but it's in their interests to act this way as they don't want a two-state solution. I don't envision this conflict ending until one side is completely wiped out.

Islamic Jihad were pressured by Hamas to adhere to the ceasefire that recently expired. Given the level of control exercised by Hamas over Gaza I don't think at least some (lions share?) of these attacks could have been carried out without their involvement.

I think that Israeli opinion is in favour of a two-state solution - that was previously almost agreed upon in the earlier negotiations. Also, over the past few years Israel has moved tentatively towards disengagement in the Occupied Territories, withdrawing soldiers and settlements in Gaza and removing some of the West Bank settlements. However, there are still obvious issues and full disengagement is a long way off. From what I understand Israeli public opinion doesn't back teh Settler movement in the West Bank and elected officials have recently been sharply critical of the actions of some settlers (the President referred to a settler 'pogrom' recently after violence in Hebron).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can't compare what is happening in Gaza with the 'Final Solution'.

That's right. The arabs are not white Europeans, so although for all intents and purposes it is ethnic cleansing, lets call it something more cuddly like repression. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's right. The arabs are not white Europeans, so although for all intents and purposes it is ethnic cleansing, lets call it something more cuddly like repression. ;)

I believe the official line was "Putting the Palestinians on a diet". Not ethnic cleansing though. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This problem isn't going to go away anytime soon. They will probably still be shooting each other in 100 years time. It's a real hangover from the war, when the Jews were uprooted and dumped in an area where they weren't welcome.

And where do Israel get the money for all this modern weaponry? What industry do they have apart from exporting out-of-season fruit and veg to Tesco?

Edited by centralparker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's right. The arabs are not white Europeans, so although for all intents and purposes it is ethnic cleansing, lets call it something more cuddly like repression. ;)

It's nothing like ethnic cleansing either. Ethnic cleansing refers to the driving of a particular ethnic group from an area in favour of another ethnic group. Israel actually removed it's citizens from the Gaza Strip settlements several years ago. Any Israeli citizen trying to set up home there would probably be shot by the IDF

Phrases like 'Final Solution' imply that the actions being taken by Israel are designed to annihilate an entire race. This is demonstrably not the case. Whether or not you agree with the actions I think that language such as this is misleading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Israel has shown repeatedly that it will kill one hundred Palestinians for every Israeli killed by Hamas. IIRC, it has even stated it as such.

The truth of the matter is that no one can do a damn thing about this. The Israelis have been told by the Syrians, Egyptians and Iranians - within living memory, and so far as Iran is concerned very recently, that they will be driven into the sea. Whether or not that is the case now is irrelevant. They are fully aware of the lack of international support, and are also quite happy to piss off the UN.

Nothing can be done about this under the current situation. Not a damn thing. And to me, the real problem here is that neither they, nor the Palestinians are in the wrong - and neither are in the right. This is one ex Imperial mess that can be laid squarely at the door of the US and UK sadly - to all intents and purposes nothing much has changed since 1948. Two into one doesn't go. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And where do Israel get the money for all this modern weaponry? What industry do they have apart from exporting out-of-season fruit and veg to Tesco?

some one will no doubt say the jewish lobby in the states,but they get most there cash from the diamond trade and jaffa cakes ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...