adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 And that's the way they intend to keep it. How come it's ok for you to use the J word and not me? What does that even mean? Who is "they"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 What does that even mean? Who is "they"? The Israeli Government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The Israeli Government. So why does the Israeli government want to keep it this "way"? Whatever the "way" is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You're either incredibly thick or are being deliberately obtuse. I charitably assume the latter, so I'll bid you good day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You're either incredibly thick or are being deliberately obtuse. I charitably assume the latter, so I'll bid you good day. I'm interested to know your view. To me it seems you're trying to suggest that Israel is an apartheid state where only Jews have full rights. This, of course, is hard to believe when 1/4 of Israel's population is non-Jewish and enjoy all the same rights as Jewish citizens. Rather than addressing that fact which would make your conspiracy theory untrue - you appear to be taking the option of running away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) I'm interested to know your view. To me it seems you're trying to suggest that Israel is an apartheid state where only Jews have full rights. This, of course, is hard to believe when 1/4 of Israel's population is non-Jewish and enjoy all the same rights as Jewish citizens. Rather than addressing that fact which would make your conspiracy theory untrue - you appear to be taking the option of running away. Ok, just for you. Everytime I refer to the lack of rights of Palestinians in the West Bank you pretend that I'm talking about non Jewish people (is that allowed?) who managed to avoid expulsion from behind the pre 67 borders. Israel has made a 2 state solution impossible by carving up the West Bank, unless it were to withdraw its military and its uninvited settlements, which it will never do. Neither will it incorporate the West Bank into Israel, as that would mean sharing power with non Jewish people. That is why they are happy with the status quo, 1/4 of the electorate is easily incorporated and controlled. By the way, I really don't see how I can avoid the use of the words Jew or Jewish when discussing how Israel treats people of different religions. New immigrants have to swear an oath of allegiance to the "Jewish State". The Foreign Minister wants all Israelis, including non Jews, to swear it. To quote Gideon Levy, a well known Israeli journalist: "Remember this day. It's the day Israel changes its character ... From now on, we will be living in a new, officially approved, ethnocratic, theocratic, nationalistic and racist country." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/10/israel-jewish-oath-new-citizens Edited November 5, 2014 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Ok, just for you. Everytime I refer to the lack of rights of Palestinians in the West Bank you pretend that I'm talking about non Jewish people (is that allowed?) who managed to avoid expulsion from behind the pre 67 borders. Israel has made a 2 state solution impossible by carving up the West Bank, unless it were to withdraw its military and its uninvited settlements, which it will never do. Neither will it incorporate the West Bank into Israel, as that would mean sharing power with non Jewish people. That is why they are happy with the status quo, 1/4 of the electorate is easily incorporated and controlled. By the way, I really don't see how I can avoid the use of the words Jew or Jewish when discussing how Israel treats people of different religions. New immigrants have to swear an oath of allegiance to the "Jewish State". The Foreign Minister wants all Israelis, including non Jews, to swear it. To quote Gideon Levy, a well known Israeli journalist: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/10/israel-jewish-oath-new-citizens You're trying to paint it as racist that immigrants to Israel have to swear an allegiance to the state. What about people in America or Britain who have to swear an allegiance to facets of the state they might not like. Whether it be immigrants or people involved at any level in the government, they have to swear an oath to the Republic and god in America or the Queen (the head of the church of England) her family and Britain's democratic values. Why is it racist for an immigrant to Israel to have to swear allegiance to the Jewish and democratic state, but it's not racist for an immigrant to Britain to have to swear allegiance to the Queen (the head of the church of England) and Britain's democratic values? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Shocking, but not suprising, to see people actually supporting Palestinian terrorism on the streets of Scotland Just like people who excuse acts of Israeli committed genocide and aggression. Edited November 5, 2014 by Fotbawmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Shocking, but not suprising, to see people actually supporting Palestinian terrorism on the streets of Scotland Shocking how badly you are trolling. Do you at least get paid for these posts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) 1/4 of Israel's population is non Jewish. Don't let the facts get in the way of your racist ramblings though. It's illuminating to see how the most fervent, yet most ignorant, Israel hating posters like yourself and The King also constantly bring up Judaism and "the Jews" at every opportunity and that 1/4 are not allowed to form a political party that doesnt agree that Israel must stay a jewish run state...great democracy.heres some more of Israels Apartheid laws... http://www.onepalestine.org/resources/Israeli_Apartheid_Laws.html Edited November 5, 2014 by THE KING 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Israeli Economy minister calls today for annexing 60% of West Bank! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I wonder how many terrorists adam thinks are in plaestine. He may pretend there are millions while ignoring what that says about the brutality of the average IDF soldier since it wouild mean the IDF a lot better at killing innocents than the terrorists are. Or he may swing the other way and claim there are hardly any terrorists and thus be able to hold onto the thought that the terrorists would be more likely to murder people than the IDF members. This of course means that a nation of millions is oppressing another nation of millions just because they are terrified of a few individuals. There is no way to rationalise Israels actions here and makle them come out as the good guys. That's why adam isn't even trying. He'll ignore anything even mildly critical of Israel and just attempt to spam the thread out with whataboutery and irrelevance in the hopes that people either believe his propaganda or just stop reading the true horror of what the modern state of israel is. These are standard tactics you'll see all over the internet when some idiot tries to defend the indefensible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I wonder how many terrorists adam thinks are in plaestine. He may pretend there are millions while ignoring what that says about the brutality of the average IDF soldier since it wouild mean the IDF a lot better at killing innocents than the terrorists are. Or he may swing the other way and claim there are hardly any terrorists and thus be able to hold onto the thought that the terrorists would be more likely to murder people than the IDF members. This of course means that a nation of millions is oppressing another nation of millions just because they are terrified of a few individuals. There is no way to rationalise Israels actions here and makle them come out as the good guys. That's why adam isn't even trying. He'll ignore anything even mildly critical of Israel and just attempt to spam the thread out with whataboutery and irrelevance in the hopes that people either believe his propaganda or just stop reading the true horror of what the modern state of israel is. These are standard tactics you'll see all over the internet when some idiot tries to defend the indefensible. What are you on about? When people blow up your buses, cafes and murder your children every weekend it makes sense to build a wall to keep those people out. When people launch rockets at your homes everyday it makes sense to try to stop those people getting rockets. You can say whatever you like but the fact is Israel has a right to defend itself and just because a lot of people around the world hate them for that doesn't mean they are going to stop. The reason why I am posting is to counter the constant lies levelled by you and your type (see king's post above for example) The fact is there have been significantly fewer deaths in the Israeli-Arab conflict than nearly every other major conflict in that time (http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html) yet people are more obsessed with Israel and peddling lies about Israel than they are about even acknowledging what's going on in other countries. Even this year there are six conflicts with more casualties than the Israel-Palestine conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts#cite_ref-31) yet this one is more talked about than all the others combined. People dress it up as huminatarian concern but they couldn't care less when Palestinians are being killed by other Palestinians or other Arabs. They couldn't care less about the tens of thousands of people in other places in the world that are being killed. The reason why this conflict is so much more talked about, and why Israel is demonised so much more than other countries which have done far worse, is quite simple and it's been shown on this thread amongst many other places time and time again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 What are you on about? When people blow up your buses, cafes and murder your children every weekend it makes sense to build a wall to keep those people out. When people launch rockets at your homes everyday it makes sense to try to stop those people getting rockets. You can say whatever you like but the fact is Israel has a right to defend itself and just because a lot of people around the world hate them for that doesn't mean they are going to stop. The reason why I am posting is to counter the constant lies levelled by you and your type (see king's post above for example) The fact is there have been significantly fewer deaths in the Israeli-Arab conflict than nearly every other major conflict in that time (http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html) yet people are more obsessed with Israel and peddling lies about Israel than they are about even acknowledging what's going on in other countries. Even this year there are six conflicts with more casualties than the Israel-Palestine conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts#cite_ref-31) yet this one is more talked about than all the others combined. People dress it up as huminatarian concern but they couldn't care less when Palestinians are being killed by other Palestinians or other Arabs. They couldn't care less about the tens of thousands of people in other places in the world that are being killed. The reason why this conflict is so much more talked about, and why Israel is demonised so much more than other countries which have done far worse, is quite simple and it's been shown on this thread amongst many other places time and time again You decided to compare Israel to NI. That wasn't my whataboutery it was yours. As I already expalined in this thread, there's only ever one way to defeat terrorism and despite you originally disagreeing with that, it did appear you were starting to come round. Now you've apparently gone entrenched again. Now you can go on all day about how much more civilised and organised the Israeli government is than palestine and I'm not going to disagree. However until such time as Israel decides to change tactics, I'm always going to view them as a first world nation who is powerful enough to choose how to deal with the situatioin. They can try to end it or they can try to contain it. At no stage hjave I seen them try to end it other than the one leader who was assasinated by one of his own people for even trying. If you won't allow palestine to become a proper nation with a proper defence force then you can't complain if the defence of that palce gets taken up by zealots and extremists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You decided to compare Israel to NI. That wasn't my whataboutery it was yours. As I already expalined in this thread, there's only ever one way to defeat terrorism and despite you originally disagreeing with that, it did appear you were starting to come round. Now you've apparently gone entrenched again. Now you can go on all day about how much more civilised and organised the Israeli government is than palestine and I'm not going to disagree. However until such time as Israel decides to change tactics, I'm always going to view them as a first world nation who is powerful enough to choose how to deal with the situatioin. They can try to end it or they can try to contain it. At no stage hjave I seen them try to end it other than the one leader who was assasinated by one of his own people for even trying. If you won't allow palestine to become a proper nation with a proper defence force then you can't complain if the defence of that palce gets taken up by zealots and extremists. Defending against what? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 What are you on about? When people blow up your buses, cafes and murder your children every weekend it makes sense to build a wall to keep those people out. When people launch rockets at your homes everyday it makes sense to try to stop those people getting rockets. You can say whatever you like but the fact is Israel has a right to defend itself and just because a lot of people around the world hate them for that doesn't mean they are going to stop. The reason why I am posting is to counter the constant lies levelled by you and your type (see king's post above for example) The fact is there have been significantly fewer deaths in the Israeli-Arab conflict than nearly every other major conflict in that time (http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html) yet people are more obsessed with Israel and peddling lies about Israel than they are about even acknowledging what's going on in other countries. Even this year there are six conflicts with more casualties than the Israel-Palestine conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts#cite_ref-31) yet this one is more talked about than all the others combined. People dress it up as huminatarian concern but they couldn't care less when Palestinians are being killed by other Palestinians or other Arabs. They couldn't care less about the tens of thousands of people in other places in the world that are being killed. The reason why this conflict is so much more talked about, and why Israel is demonised so much more than other countries which have done far worse, is quite simple and it's been shown on this thread amongst many other places time and time again ok to build a wall?...That called collective punishment a war crime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Israeli peace loving Democray governments, response to threats from Lebanon. .. "If such a scenario does materialize, we will raze Lebanon to the ground! We will return it to the Stone Age and bury them under the rocks.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Defending against what? Israel invading every few years and culling some of the population? You know, the mass murder you support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Israel invading every few years and culling some of the population? You know, the mass murder you support. How many times did Israel invade during the last two years when Hamas weren't attacking every day? You labelled them as terrorists earlier but now seem to be changing your tune, saying they're a "defence force" when it suits you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 How many times did Israel invade during the last two years when Hamas weren't attacking every day? You labelled them as terrorists earlier but now seem to be changing your tune, saying they're a "defence force" when it suits you. Where and why did exactly Hamas come about? Regardless, Israel has being doing the same thing to Palestinians long before they existed. Hamas offered Israel a 10 year ceasefire during the latest conflict. Yet Israel rejected that. What does that say about Israel? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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