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Edinburgh lose by two points with Immelman butchering two tough but kickable pens in the last 5. Darcy, Bennett and Skinner absolutely outstanding. 

We often talk about refs but that Welsh p***k showed his hand in the final minute when he was desperate to somehow not give a penalty for a head shot on Bennett and didn't even produce a card. Edinburgh did some silly stuff but his reffing of the mauls was a joke as was the Bulls offside line.

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1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Edinburgh lose by two points with Immelman butchering two tough but kickable pens in the last 5. Darcy, Bennett and Skinner absolutely outstanding. 

We often talk about refs but that Welsh p***k showed his hand in the final minute when he was desperate to somehow not give a penalty for a head shot on Bennett and didn't even produce a card. Edinburgh did some silly stuff but his reffing of the mauls was a joke as was the Bulls offside line.

Yeah, I tried to be a bit more diplomatic, but Edinburgh were playing 16 men there, even to the point he was overriding his TMO and linesman at critical points.

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8 minutes ago, GAD said:

Yeah, I tried to be a bit more diplomatic, but Edinburgh were playing 16 men there, even to the point he was overriding his TMO and linesman at critical points.

Claiming the contact slipped up when the guy was driving up the entire time was outrageous. At the end of the day though the decision to kick the first pen rather than to the corner was a big error.  

The other decision that really stung was the clear out on Darcy with about 5 to go that was at a 90 degree angle which he ignored despite pinging Edinburgh for it a few times. It was classic Nigel Owens behaviour, slight bias then outright cheating in the final minutes. 

I flicked over to BT and Karl Dixon is putting on a show but at least seems to be shafting both teams. 

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9 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

Karl Dickson's ability to referee a totally different game to the one he's involved in is absolutely astonishing

His reffing of the scrum seemed to be blame the Northampton loosehead and if you can't do that then reset. 

The TMO pointing out the push that led to the head injury and Dickson just deciding it was fine was mental. They said he was in the ruck but the tackle wasn't even complete when the push happened. 

He also let Leicester take a tap 10m from the mark when Northampton were down to 12 men. It's decisions like that which show there is more going on than incompetence. 

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The world rankings now have 9 teams within 10 points
https://www.world.rugby/tournaments/rankings/mru
4 years ago there was 10 points between 1st and 4th

Now the top 4 are within 3 points

For perspective a 3 point gap is notionally equivalent to home advantage

This is a good time for the game from that perspective

If they can either get the players to follow these rules or get some rules that the players can deal with it'll be better

 

Edited by topcat(The most tip top)
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17 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The world rankings now have 9 teams within 10 points
https://www.world.rugby/tournaments/rankings/mru
4 years ago there was 10 points between 1st and 4th

Now the top 4 are within 3 points

For perspective a 3 point gap is notionally equivalent to home advantage

This is a good time for the game from that perspective

If they can either get the players to follow these rules or get some rules that the players can deal with it'll be better

 

Or if the refs actually enforce the laws correctly instead of constantly changing "interpretations"

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46 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The lawmakers, the referees and the players can all blame each other

But they've got to sort this out one way or another
 

I felt a bit sorry for Bundee Aki at the weekend, he got red carded for clearing out the jackler and making contact with his head. However his head was lower than his hips and would have been near impossible to clear him (or hit the ruck in general) without making contact with his head. INfact Aki's head made contact with the jacklers shoulder before Aki's shoulder hit his head. Its getting to the point where you may as well not contest a ruck if your not first there and just concede the turnover as you'll give away a penalty as you cant hit the ruck without making contact with someones head.

Then I remember he's Irish and had a good chuckle at his moany face and the extra weeks he'll hopefully get for all his whinging at hte ref.....

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1 hour ago, honestly united said:

I felt a bit sorry for Bundee Aki at the weekend, he got red carded for clearing out the jackler and making contact with his head. However his head was lower than his hips and would have been near impossible to clear him (or hit the ruck in general) without making contact with his head. INfact Aki's head made contact with the jacklers shoulder before Aki's shoulder hit his head. Its getting to the point where you may as well not contest a ruck if your not first there and just concede the turnover as you'll give away a penalty as you cant hit the ruck without making contact with someones head.

Then I remember he's Irish and had a good chuckle at his moany face and the extra weeks he'll hopefully get for all his whinging at hte ref.....

he is irish so will get a slap on the wrist 

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6 hours ago, honestly united said:

I felt a bit sorry for Bundee Aki at the weekend, he got red carded for clearing out the jackler and making contact with his head. However his head was lower than his hips and would have been near impossible to clear him (or hit the ruck in general) without making contact with his head. INfact Aki's head made contact with the jacklers shoulder before Aki's shoulder hit his head. Its getting to the point where you may as well not contest a ruck if your not first there and just concede the turnover as you'll give away a penalty as you cant hit the ruck without making contact with someones head.

Then I remember he's Irish and had a good chuckle at his moany face and the extra weeks he'll hopefully get for all his whinging at hte ref.....

I have no sympathy for him tbh.  He was completely out of control, was flying off his feet, and had his right arm tucked - any of those three could have got him a red on their own. That sort of clear needs removed from the game. His behaviour towards the referee was a disgrace as well, and his bullshit "apology tweet" later on should get him no sympathy either.

While I have sympathy with the argument that if you're not first there, you might as well concede the turnover, that's part of the game. Get there quicker, or make a better decision when you do. Don't just lose control and try to smash anything that moves.

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12 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

I have no sympathy for him tbh.  He was completely out of control, was flying off his feet, and had his right arm tucked - any of those three could have got him a red on their own. That sort of clear needs removed from the game. His behaviour towards the referee was a disgrace as well, and his bullshit "apology tweet" later on should get him no sympathy either.

While I have sympathy with the argument that if you're not first there, you might as well concede the turnover, that's part of the game. Get there quicker, or make a better decision when you do. Don't just lose control and try to smash anything that moves.

I think my bigger point is that in the professional game players are actively being coached to put themselves into a position to get hurt, rather than to do things safely. Back in the day if you were going to compete for the ball in the ruck, you would step over the ball first then bend to pick up, but you had your whole shoulder and side facing the opposition to take any hits. Now its feet back and bending over, head first trying to pick the ball up. You are head first at the opposition actively presenting your head as first point of contact with no thought of protecting yourself.

Its the same as players being coached to jump for the ball into the opposition players to try and win penalties. 

 

Im fully supportive of hard sanctions for deliberate high tackles, but I would also be supportive of outlawing players having there head's lower than hip height in rucks and mauls similar to it is in scrums and being harsher on players not suporting their body weight / supporting with their hands on the ground. Reckless behaviour goes both ways and although coaches (and world rugby) should be looking at player welfare on both sides

Making the ruck more competitive (while still safe) draws in players and would give more open space out wide, and stopping players using the jackaling position if there head is lower then their hips would be a start.

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Yeah fair enough, tbh jackling has always been something I've not been comfortable with, for the exact "shoulders below hips" reasons you've laid out. It's pretty much smash the guy's spine to clear him, which can't be something we want to encourage

 

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