Rugby Union

[Savage Henry]

Scotlands under 20s are absolutely shite.  

[GAD]

10 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Scotlands under 20s are absolutely shite.  

Yes, whilst I have no problem with Scotland bringing in SQ players, you do have to look at what's going on with producing players here. They look massively underdeveloped compared to everyone else, and most of them have played absolutely no pro rugby. I also wonder if all this team GB bollocks with the 7s has closed another pathway.

Also, rugby is obviously a very distant second to football in this country, but there are plenty of big, reasonably skillful boys dropping out of the football system each year, guys who've probably had better professional development than some of the rugby players in the early years. Are we doing anything to try and pick these guys up and bring them into the sport?

[honestly united]

If a youngster is really good (Hogg, Russell, Grey etc) they get picked up on early and will be playing with Glasgow / Edinburgh etc and not in the Scotland U20 teams which weakens the teams (Dobbie being a recent example). We do a really poor job of getting players from U20 level up to full international in the main as well. For example Luke Crosbie was playing U20 in 2017, its only this season he's made the break through to the full squad. That squad also had Darcy Graham,  Matt Fagerson, Blair Kinghorn, Stafford McDowall, Robbie Nairn, Charlie Shiel, Alex Craig, Tom Gordon and a few others with pro experience.

The 2018 team still had McDowall playing (i had high hopes for him before his injury) Murphy Walker, Rory Darge, Ross Thomson, Marshall Sykes, Jamie Hodgson and 2019 Ashman, Thomson, Sykes, Walker, Ollie Smith, Chamberlain, Blain with Darge missing through injury but he was back in 2020 so we have had a steady stream of players its just some take longer to get from the U20's to the full team. I would put that down to the private schools run their teams pretty much like a pro team, with training most days etc, whereas anyone at a club side maybe train twice a week tops so will be physically behind.

In theory the Super 6 should have helped close the gap between U20 and pro but that doesnt seem to be working. I had thought the whole point was to split the youngsters across the teams and ensure they are getting game time alongside older heads in a competitive environment but it doesnt appear to be happening. Given the SRU owns the franchises surely they should be insisting on players getting game time 

[aDONisSheep]

At long last somebody in the media has said it;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65006193

I don't know why the law isn't made more like the tackle in the air, giving the ref's a little bit more discretion.

I also think there is a strong argument for an 'orange' card.

I think reds should be for cynical foul play, swinging arms, shoulder barges, and oranges/yellows for accidentals (face on face or as in Stewards case, bottling a challenge and having the attacker run head-on into him) depending on how the ref sees it.

Whilst I'm on my high-horse, no word yet on ringrose being sent to (the lamentally laugahable) 'tackle school' for his terrible technique when tackling Kinghorn.  It's almost like they invented it for reasons other than improving tackle technique!

Yours

aDONis

[Eednud]

Scott Robertson appointed All Blacks coach from 2024.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/all-blacks-coach-to-be-revealed-today/KTR62YTLVNFBFKCDBX22VSAFM4/

[peasy23]

Here's the Rugby Pass team of the tourney with Scotland players making up most of the back line.

It was a strange tourney for Scotland imo, great start but then competed well but came up short against France and Ireland. We still look miles off it in terms of physicallity against them.

Scotland scored 17 tries, it's not that long ago that it would have taken us 5 or 6 years to score that many.

[Mark Connolly]

It's a shame it's a RWC rather than Lions year, because a Test team with no English or Welsh players would be hilarious

[peasy23]

Stuart Hogg's International career should be over. Not because of Kinghorn's form, I've just heard him say "could of" in an interview. 

[GAD]

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

It's a shame it's a RWC rather than Lions year, because a Test team with no English or Welsh players would be hilarious

I genuinely don't think that would be allowed to happen. Maybe no Welsh at a push, but an English player would have to be picked. Probably Freddie Steward even though he's pretty shite, or Itoje despite being honking for a couple of seasons now.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

The Steward incident has actually been interesting in the context of the "Scots complaining about referees all the time" thing. What you never (well, I can't remember it anyway) see is a procession of former Scottish internationals lining up to throw their toys out the pram when a decision goes against them. I don't think even in the wake of the 2015 QF did you see anything like the last few days. Apparently rugby is being "ruined" by the current tackle laws now that England have had a borderline case go against them. Of course, in reality rugby, and in particular international rugby, is a more exciting and high quality sport than it ever has been in the professional era; and there is next to no grounds to suggest that red cards ruin games. I think the orange card rule is an ok idea, but ultimately it's completely unnecessary.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[Savage Henry]

17 hours ago, peasy23 said:

Here's the Rugby Pass team of the tourney with Scotland players making up most of the back line.

It was a strange tourney for Scotland imo, great start but then competed well but came up short against France and Ireland. We still look miles off it in terms of physicallity against them.

Scotland scored 17 tries, it's not that long ago that it would have taken us 5 or 6 years to score that many.

That team would be incredible to watch. 

[Mark Connolly]

And, to the surprise of no one, World Rugby have shat it from the English pressure and chucked Peyper under the bus.

[Ignoramus]

I’m not trusting Frank Hadden’s opinion on anything rugby related after the years  of trauma he inflicted on me tbqhwy

[aDONisSheep]

Terrible decision rightfully overturned.

Unfortunately, it's too fvkkin' late.  England were up against it before Peyper completely fvkked it for them.

Game was a complete bogey after that, a complete waste of everyones time.

 

Rugby needs to buck it's ideas up, it's becoming Amercian football by the back-door.

There are too many subs;  Players need to lose some bulk and be able to play for 80 minutes.

The TMO needs to be less involved.  If a referee misses a forward pass or a little knock on 4, 5, 6 + phases back, then play on.  It should only get involved when the ref asks or if there is serious foul play.

Straight feeds at the scrum!

More 10m penalties for chat.  It grinds my gears that there are so many appeals for cards etc.

Speed the game up.  One reset then straight arm at the scrum (you take your chances), kick clock time to be reduced, stop the waterboy nonsense it's delaying restarts, clocks for lineouts from time ball goes out to throw in, stop the caterpillar for box kicks.

Allow a bit of rucking (not round the head), but if a hand is in the ruck slowing the ball, then it needs a scrape.

Yours

aDONis

[HK Hibee]

My view on the tackle laws is entirely coloured by both my boys being keen rugby players, coaching the younger boys team and the older boy having had  a concussion.  
 

rugby had to get a point where players stop tackling so high otherwise people, kids in particular, will stop playing. I have no sympathy for any borderline case - honestly Steward saw what was happening and turned into Keenan.  Send them off and behaviour changes. 

[flyingscot]

I didn't think it was a red card for Steward.Given how quickly it all developed plus the knock on, I felt it was harsh and he was more pulling out of the challenge. 

Rugby also needs to stop watching incidents in slow motion. Slow motion should only be used to check grounding etc, as it often exacerbates minor incidents. Refs are more aware of this now, asking for real time to be used. 

[Savage Henry]

17 hours ago, flyingscot said:

I didn't think it was a red card for Steward.Given how quickly it all developed plus the knock on, I felt it was harsh and he was more pulling out of the challenge. 

Rugby also needs to stop watching incidents in slow motion. Slow motion should only be used to check grounding etc, as it often exacerbates minor incidents. Refs are more aware of this now, asking for real time to be used. 

That’s the thing about the Steward red card: the referee dismissed so much mitigation that it was clearly unfair on the player. 
 

There are too many red cards in rugby.  I get that head injuries are quite rightly the root cause, but it ruins games.  France could easily have put 60 points on Scotland had their prop not got sent off, and that helps nobody.  Honestly, if neither of those players had been sent off, would anyone have complained?

[flyingscot]

15 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

That’s the thing about the Steward red card: the referee dismissed so much mitigation that it was clearly unfair on the player. 
 

There are too many red cards in rugby.  I get that head injuries are quite rightly the root cause, but it ruins games.  France could easily have put 60 points on Scotland had their prop not got sent off, and that helps nobody.  Honestly, if neither of those players had been sent off, would anyone have complained?

Yes, because what Haouas did was dangerous and out of line. I'm more sympathetic to high challenges particularly where there are other tacklers around. 

Rugby has massively changed in terms of physicality, pace and tactics since the amateur days, indeed if you watch footage from 1990s you'd struggle to think it was the same sport. It's hard not to see rules needing further amendment largely to protect players from themselves. 

[Savage Henry]

24 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Yes, because what Haouas did was dangerous and out of line. I'm more sympathetic to high challenges particularly where there are other tacklers around. 

Rugby has massively changed in terms of physicality, pace and tactics since the amateur days, indeed if you watch footage from 1990s you'd struggle to think it was the same sport. It's hard not to see rules needing further amendment largely to protect players from themselves. 

I definitely agree with that.  I can remember Jonah Lomu being such  a freak on the wing, mainly because he was up against 5’11, 12 stone wingers like Cammy Murray.   These days most of the best wingers are built like flankers.

I just think the solution isn’t red cards. I know the thinking is that players will learn, but really, there’s an arguable red card in every game, and I don’t think that’s right.  

[GAD]

Jamie Dobie starting on the wing? Is this something that's been happening that I've missed?