Golfers Thread

[Distant Doonhamer]

3 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

5 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I've long ago switched off but who won the Jacklin Nicklaus awards.

Paul Azinger

I'm presuming Seve did the presentation.

[Skyline Drifter]

6 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I've long ago switched off but who won the Jacklin Nicklaus awards.

As far as I can see they've not announced it yet.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

11 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

A single tier qualification would be simpler for everyone to understand but I don't know how easily it can be achieved and I'm not convinced it not all just optics anyway. Does it really make the team stronger?

Atm, it's possible to be 5th on one list and 6th on the other and not be an automatic pick. A golfer in this situation would obviously be given a wildcard, but it seems a waste of a captain's pick when they would surely be in the top 8 or 9 in an overall list.

16 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The problem with the Seve Trophy is it's not played by Europe. It doesn't foster the same team relationship. It doesn't give the opportunity for Anglo/ Euro playing partnerships even if those are not all that common anyway. It's not the same TEAM and the European captain, whichever side he takes control of, isn't captaining his whole squad. It would be much better if Europe could also play the Rest of the World but presumably it can't be fitted into the calendar. The return of the Seve Trophy would certainly be better than nothing though if the major European players would buy into it.

Agreed that playing as Europe against the ROTW would be much preferable.

[peasy23]

I'm presuming Seve did the presentation.

It was almost as funny by the look of twitter. Sergio got it from the European team and DJ from the USA. Tony Jacklin presented it. He's had plenty to say about Sergio in the past.

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

Atm, it's possible to be 5th on one list and 6th on the other and not be an automatic pick. A golfer in this situation would obviously be given a wildcard, but it seems a waste of a captain's pick when they would surely be in the top 8 or 9 in an overall list.

It's possible but I was being specific. It hasn't happened. It's a problem that hasn't existed really.

My point was a single list wouldn't have changed anything massively would it? There's a potential from what you posted earlier than we'd have had 3 different Europeans maybe but would it have made the team significantly stronger?

[Skyline Drifter]

9 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

It was almost as funny by the look of twitter. Sergio got it from the European team and DJ from the USA. Tony Jacklin presented it. He's had plenty to say about Sergio in the past.
 

They just showed a presentation of it to Sergo Garcia on Sky. Jacklin didn't present it, though he was on the committee awarding it.

They were disappointingly vague about the reasons for it. Just seemed to generally go on about his being a "good team-mate". Did he do anything particularly sporting?

There were a few decent gestures in the last few holes tonight albeit pretty much all once the Cup had been clinched.

[peasy23]

It's possible but I was being specific. It hasn't happened. It's a problem that hasn't existed really.
My point was a single list wouldn't have changed anything massively would it? There's a potential from what you posted earlier than we'd have had 3 different Europeans maybe but would it have made the team significantly stronger?

The way the Americans played I doubt a couple of different players, or even pairings with what was there, would have made any difference. Would just have been Titanic deckchair shuffling.

I know they have to try and encourage players to play on the European Tour by stretching out the qualification period, but they have to find a way to boost the points in the months leading up to the Ryder Cup to reward the players in form.

[Ro Sham Bo]

6 hours ago, peasy23 said:

I know they have to try and encourage players to play on the European Tour by stretching out the qualification period, but they have to find a way to boost the points in the months leading up to the Ryder Cup to reward the players in form.

An easy way would be to weight the points in the big summer events over other big events which take place early in the season. As has been pointed out plenty of times, Westwood and Hatton are perfect examples of players who started the year excellently but faded away completely during the season. 

[doulikefish]

Well that was an absolute shoeing but at some point the yanks had to have a team that played to there potential.As somebody mentioned Stricker has managed to get his team to buy into his way of thinking and has been a superb captain.Been noticeable aswell they downplayed there chances and there was not the usual hype surrounding the "how much they would win by" 

It's one bad defeat it's not the time for wholesale changes to our qualyfying system etc some tinkering maybe but let's not forget the European system has been very successful over the years.

But what we do need is some emerging talent to step up and replace the poulters the Westwood's etc or we could be in for some barren years 

[Willie adie]

I stand by my Westwood as a bottler comment,

I don't doubt his ability, you don't win as many events as he has without ability,

And he may well have had some bad luck in majors  final rounds,  but not in every major he has been contesting.

However the amount he has played in and the number of times he has failed to go on and win,

Now if has ability and some bad luck  that leaves only bottle as the reason,

Other players have shown resilience and ability, and  come back from bas luck to win majors,

Sorry for me for a player with his span of career and ability , he should have a major, 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

An easy way would be to weight the points in the big summer events over other big events which take place early in the season. As has been pointed out plenty of times, Westwood and Hatton are perfect examples of players who started the year excellently but faded away completely during the season. 

This is a double edged sword though and hard to get righf. If you weight it too far towards late season big events you run the risk of ending up with guys who produce the week of golf of their life ending up in the team (also known as the Ben Curtis / Todd Hamilton effect). 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Skyline Drifter

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

15 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

But what we do need is some emerging talent to step up and replace the poulters the Westwood's etc or we could be in for some barren years 

Very much this. We can complain about captains or qualifying all we want but the main issue we have is that the American team is far too strong for our out of form/older ragtag bunch of jobbers. In the past they have been stronger on paper for sure but this year’s gulf in class is the biggest in my lifetime.

I’m actually pretty confident a good few of the Europeans will step up to the plate, they must have been watching all weekend and thinking this is my chance to stake a place in this team. We have a good few veterans they should be looking to displace. Guys like Boab, who is not only a great golfer, but a big character is exactly the type of guy we need getting the finger out.

[cas79]

Very much this. We can complain about captains or qualifying all we want but the main issue we have is that the American team is far too strong for our out of form/older ragtag bunch of jobbers. In the past they have been stronger on paper for sure but this year’s gulf in class is the biggest in my lifetime.
I’m actually pretty confident a good few of the Europeans will step up to the plate, they must have been watching all weekend and thinking this is my chance to stake a place in this team. We have a good few veterans they should be looking to displace. Guys like Boab, who is not only a great golfer, but a big character is exactly the type of guy we need getting the finger out.

The us team have some emerging talent to, they also have a huge advantage as youth players and further up to NCAA, the European countries are all different in there approach to yougesters development some better than others,
Is the Ryder cup on next year too

[D Angelo Barksdale]

7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It's possible but I was being specific. It hasn't happened. It's a problem that hasn't existed really.

My point was a single list wouldn't have changed anything massively would it? There's a potential from what you posted earlier than we'd have had 3 different Europeans maybe but would it have made the team significantly stronger?

I was probably using an extreme example, but surely the whole point of the qualification process is to give us the best 8 or 9 players over the season, particularly the last 6 months leading in to the match, thus giving the captain some flexibility with his wildcards.

Does the qualification process do that for us at the moment ? I don't think it does.

[PB1994]

38 minutes ago, cas79 said:

The us team have some emerging talent to, they also have a huge advantage as youth players and further up to NCAA, the European countries are all different in there approach to yougesters development some better than others,
Is the Ryder cup on next year too

The next one is in Rome in 2023.

[cas79]

The next one is in Rome in 2023.

Cheers mate

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

I was probably using an extreme example, but surely the whole point of the qualification process is to give us the best 8 or 9 players over the season, particularly the last 6 months leading in to the match, thus giving the captain some flexibility with his wildcards.

Does the qualification process do that for us at the moment ? I don't think it does.

We're not really disagreeing here. I'm not averse to changing the qualification process in principle and a single list would certainly be easier to understand and follow.

What I'm saying (not aimed at you) is that a lot of people are shouting for a change of process and a pile of Captain's picks as if it would have made us more competitive this time. As I alluded to last night we had Butch Harmon on Sky claiming that not having 6 captain's picks handicapped Harrington compared to Stickler without particularly justifying why.

I don't believe that fundamentally any change of method would make much odds to the current strength of our team. I don't think there were three or four obviously better European golfers sitting at home who were done out of places because of the way the process works. Would Harrington have preferred an extra pick to take Rose instead of say Westwood? Maybe. Would it have made the team any better? Highly debatable.

Sometimes we just have to accept that the issue isn't particularly the qualification process or the Captain but the fact the opposition were just miles better. There's a reason why most of them are ranked within the World Golf top 15. No amount of faffing about with detail ahead of the event is going to change that.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Skyline Drifter

[Fuctifano]

One longer term fear I've had from the European perspective is that we're now at the stage where the European Tour is a feeder for the PGA tour - it wasn't that long ago Casey didn't get on the team because he didn't play enough golf in Europe.  As such the more young golfers go over they end up playing American target golf courses rather than playing the European tour which would negate any home advantage. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle on that one.

When you add in that the US gets to play the Presidents cup in the off years and has done for 20 years it's a surprise Europe ever wins tbh.

Next few captains I guess will be Westwood, Poulter,  Rose and Garcia in some order. Maybe McDowell for 2027 since it's in Ireland... or maybe Rory will be reduced to non-playing status by that point 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

43 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We're not really disagreeing here. I'm not averse to changing the qualification process in principle and a single list would certainly be easier to understand and follow.

What I'm saying (not aimed at you) is that a lot of people are shouting for a change of process and a pile of Captain's picks as if it would have made us more competitive this time. As I alluded to last night we had Butch Harmon on Sky claiming that not having 6 captain's picks handicapped Harrington compared to Stickler without particularly justifying why.

I don't believe that fundamentally any change of method would make much odds to the current strength of our team. I don't think there were half a dozen obviously better European golfers sitting at home who were done out of places because of the way the process works. Would Harrington have preferred an extra pick to take Rose instead of say Westwood? Maybe. Would it have made the team any better? Highly debatable.

Sometimes we just have to accept that the issue isn't particularly the qualification process or the Captain but the fact the opposition were just miles better. There's a reason why most of them are ranked within the World Gold top 15. No amount of faffing about with detail ahead of the event is going to change that.

Yeah, Harrington could have picked prime Seve, Monty and Faldo and we probably still would have lost.

We do need our best team out there though, even if it's to avoid a hounding like this week. I'll maintain that the current set up isn't the most efficient way to do that.

 

[lichtie23]

0.7 cut for me after a good weekends golf. Down to 11 which is the lowest Iv ever been