Independence For Scotland

[xbl]

That would be too hard for the Scottish electorate, who proved how thick they all were at the last lot of elections up here.

I remember at a count once I was shown the spoiled papers and you and your opponents get to sift through them and decide if they are genuinely spoiled. The best one was a huge "Bob Smith" is a fucking w****r and then they had drawn a giant cock and balls on the ballot paper. Superb. "bob" was the labour candidate.

Regarding the first point, a complicated ballot paper would also get rid of the thickos. Therefore both the tartan shortbread tin lot and the negative unionist naysayer lot would be automatically excluded from the ballot, leaving only relatively intelligent active voters to get on with the business of voting.

[The Old Northerner]

The unionists wouldnt like that, they object to multiple question referendums. The Gray Ghost is of the opinion that the referendum would be cool in the format of a multiple choice quiz. Something like:

1. What is your vote for the future of Scotland (rank in order of preference)?

Independence _

More Powers _

Status Quo _

Less Powers _

Return to Westminster _

Mass Suicide_

An opinion poll was carried using a multiple question referendum instead of the straight yes/no

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...nce-slumps.html

[Reynard]

Regarding the first point, a complicated ballot paper would also get rid of the thickos. Therefore both the tartan shortbread tin lot and the negative unionist naysayer lot would be automatically excluded from the ballot, leaving only relatively intelligent active voters to get on with the business of voting.

So would an overdose of sleeping pills at the age of 13. It would be kinder for everyone really.

[xbl]

An opinion poll was carried using a multiple question referendum instead of the straight yes/no

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...nce-slumps.html

Why is it then that the unionist lot demand a straight yes/no, and the pro independence lot demand a multi option question? Surely it should be the other way round?

[The Old Northerner]

Why is it then that the unionist lot demand a straight yes/no, and the pro independence lot demand a multi option question? Surely it should be the other way round?

How the feck would I know? It's hardly my fault that politicians are stupid

[Savage Henry]

Why is it then that the unionist lot demand a straight yes/no, and the pro independence lot demand a multi option question? Surely it should be the other way round?

First of all, rejection of independence does not constitute support for the union. It is merely a rejection of independence. Secondly, those who oppose a split do not have to justify their view through multiple question referendums. It is entirely the role of t independent lot to argue their case. Which they have manifestly failed to do.

[Demented Zebra]

Independence all the way.

I believe fate will play a big hand in the decision as most Scots will fear being governed by a Tory government. The Tories have an extremely low vote in Scotland so they are not going to make things easy for us.

One of Scotland's top financial civil servants ( Not SNP ) who looked into figures for Scottish independence was asked on a political programme if independence was viable. He said it was and that taxation would not need to rise to high levels

We are told England subsidize us. Reality is it's swings and round about. Money collected from car tax in Scotland gets divided to the uk. Scotland get's a smaller share per head of population than England.

Money from oil has been keeping England for almost three generations. Their is more oil out their in the west cost. Oil companies just need to spend investment in exploration.

Europe is moving closer and one day will be the United nations of Europe. We can have a big say in our own future dealing with our own countries needs. We don't need England to do that for us.

It's like the adult boy who lives with his parents.comfortable for mummy and daddy to take care of him rather going out and getting his own place and standing on his own two feet.

England is subsidizing us some posters write , they are willing to accept such statements ? The comfort brigade

Like it or not independence is coming. Nothing will stop it thanks to the next Tory government thankfully.

[Scary Bear]

Even the basking shark knows that the day before she followed my advice to raise fatty a referendum now, Tom Farmer made it abundantly clear he would withdraw funding to the SNP if they proceeded with their immediate and complete withdrawal from the union.(well thats what I read into it) I imagine to get all that money he is smarter than the average bear and many more of Salmond's rich friends will join the arms length treatment of the smug one over the next few weeks.

No rich pals...no funding...no party.

So a smarter, richer man than the gobshites on here believes in independence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6527639.stm

Tom Farmer, evidently believes in independence but that thinks that the timescale is too short. He wants more powers for the parliament first.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/s...icle3868220.ece

Bits out the beeb article I strongly agree with:

"If we had a government whose responsibility was to collect the money - they could only spend that which they collected - we would be a lot better off."

He said independence could liberate Scotland from a "dependency culture".

Smiley Tony Blair said:

His comments were dismissed by Prime Minister Tony Blair as "self-indulgent and absurd".

Aye, keep them on benefits, then they'll be sure to vote Labour. Sweet.

[Broken Algorithms]

Why is it then that the unionist lot demand a straight yes/no, and the pro independence lot demand a multi option question? Surely it should be the other way round?

They (The unionists) don't want a situation where the SNP can get independence with less than a majority from a multiple choice referendum.

[Reynard]

Independence all the way.

I believe fate will play a big hand in the decision as most Scots will fear being governed by a Tory government. The Tories have an extremely low vote in Scotland so they are not going to make things easy for us.

One of Scotland's top financial civil servants ( Not SNP ) who looked into figures for Scottish independence was asked on a political programme if independence was viable. He said it was and that taxation would not need to rise to high levels

We are told England subsidize us. Reality is it's swings and round about. Money collected from car tax in Scotland gets divided to the uk. Scotland get's a smaller share per head of population than England.

Money from oil has been keeping England for almost three generations. Their is more oil out their in the west cost. Oil companies just need to spend investment in exploration.

Europe is moving closer and one day will be the United nations of Europe. We can have a big say in our own future dealing with our own countries needs. We don't need England to do that for us.

It's like the adult boy who lives with his parents.comfortable for mummy and daddy to take care of him rather going out and getting his own place and standing on his own two feet.

England is subsidizing us some posters write , they are willing to accept such statements ? The comfort brigade

Like it or not independence is coming. Nothing will stop it thanks to the next Tory government thankfully.

Nah.

The Scottish Parliament thing acts as a buffer now. The government in Westminster can only get the blame for a portion of whatever the Scots happen to be moaning about at the time.

It's far too simplistic to say that simply by a tory government being voted in will automatically mean Independence will suddenly be on the agenda. It will be good to have a proper debate on it when the time comes though because as far as I am concerned it has all been about emotional pull so far. And that isn't good enough as far as I am concerned.

[Scary Bear]

They (The unionists) don't want a situation where the SNP can get independence with less than a majority from a multiple choice referendum.

Surely if there were multiple choices, one being simply more powers for the parliament, the vote for independence would be diluted further.

[Guest Raithsaltire]

Independence all the way.

I believe fate will play a big hand in the decision as most Scots will fear being governed by a Tory government. The Tories have an extremely low vote in Scotland so they are not going to make things easy for us.

One of Scotland's top financial civil servants ( Not SNP ) who looked into figures for Scottish independence was asked on a political programme if independence was viable. He said it was and that taxation would not need to rise to high levels

We are told England subsidize us. Reality is it's swings and round about. Money collected from car tax in Scotland gets divided to the uk. Scotland get's a smaller share per head of population than England.

Money from oil has been keeping England for almost three generations. Their is more oil out their in the west cost. Oil companies just need to spend investment in exploration.

Europe is moving closer and one day will be the United nations of Europe. We can have a big say in our own future dealing with our own countries needs. We don't need England to do that for us.

It's like the adult boy who lives with his parents.comfortable for mummy and daddy to take care of him rather going out and getting his own place and standing on his own two feet.

England is subsidizing us some posters write , they are willing to accept such statements ? The comfort brigade

Like it or not independence is coming. Nothing will stop it thanks to the next Tory government thankfully.

Agree 100%. They go on just now about the SNP being a minority government. We lived with a minority (in Scottish terms) government at Westminster since the late 70's in the Thatcherite fascist Tories. I am by no means saying that the current Tories are anywhere near as bad as when Hitler with a smaller moustach (Thatcher) was in governance, but they have not governed in a generation. Therefore we have had a generation of them trying to say they have changed and pandering to get the working class vote too. Lies, damn lies, and when they become the majority government in England, they will revert to their Thatcherite ways. North Britain (or Scotland as we know it) will be treated as a 3rd world part of the UK again like in the 80s, and the Independance view will grow, hence freeing Scotland from the Union after a referendum. Therefore, come on England, vote the Tories in! B)

[Broken Algorithms]

Surely if there were multiple choices, one being simply more powers for the parliament, the vote for independence would be diluted further.

That can be argued. But the unionist parties believe that it could confuse voters although i doubt there would be much confusion. The only way would be to run the referendum and see how people cope.

[Feckaye]

While I agree with independence in principle, I don't think we have the people in power that could pull it off. I have a major dislike for Salmond I feel he's on a massive ego trip. The quality of the opposition is also a big problem; there is no backbone to them. I voted to keep it as it is, as I don’t think the SNP can be trusted not to f**k it up for us (at the moment).

You can be a patriot without being a nationalist.

[Demented Zebra]

While I agree with independence in principle, I don't think we have the people in power that could pull it off. I have a major dislike for Salmond I feel he's on a massive ego trip. The quality of the opposition is also a big problem; there is no backbone to them. I voted to keep it as it is, as I don’t think the SNP can be trusted not to f**k it up for us (at the moment).

You can be a patriot without being a nationalist.

It has been stated that if Scotland voted for independence in a referendum another referendum would be held to see which party would lead us in independence. Meaning it does not need to be SNP.

When the debate get into full swing expect a lot of scare mongering from the Unionists parties. Make no mistake. England has a lot to lose from us going independent. Financially and defensively.

[Guest Ron Burgundy]

Independence all the way.

I believe fate will play a big hand in the decision as most Scots will fear being governed by a Tory government. The Tories have an extremely low vote in Scotland so they are not going to make things easy for us.

One of Scotland's top financial civil servants ( Not SNP ) who looked into figures for Scottish independence was asked on a political programme if independence was viable. He said it was and that taxation would not need to rise to high levels

We are told England subsidize us. Reality is it's swings and round about. Money collected from car tax in Scotland gets divided to the uk. Scotland get's a smaller share per head of population than England.

Money from oil has been keeping England for almost three generations. Their is more oil out their in the west cost. Oil companies just need to spend investment in exploration.

Europe is moving closer and one day will be the United nations of Europe. We can have a big say in our own future dealing with our own countries needs. We don't need England to do that for us.

It's like the adult boy who lives with his parents.comfortable for mummy and daddy to take care of him rather going out and getting his own place and standing on his own two feet.

England is subsidizing us some posters write , they are willing to accept such statements ? The comfort brigade

Like it or not independence is coming. Nothing will stop it thanks to the next Tory government thankfully.

well if one unamed source says it's ok i'm all for it..thanks for clearing that up

Do you have any idea of what a gerneration is or when oil was discovered?

Oil companies kind of have a vested interest in finding new oil fields...they just don't exist in any scale to make it worth extracting any more.....it's a finite resource...unlike the cavalcade of dumb this country churns out gerneration after generation.

It's nothing like a patriarchal system silly...we get an equal vote based upon the parliamentary system...although now we get to vote on our own stuff and the english stuff..so we are over represented given our population.

I'm afraid like it or not independence is probably not coming, quite clearly less of us want it than you lot who do.

So a smarter, richer man than the gobshites on here believes in independence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6527639.stm

Tom Farmer, evidently believes in independence but that thinks that the timescale is too short. He wants more powers for the parliament first.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/s...icle3868220.ece

Bits out the beeb article I strongly agree with:

"If we had a government whose responsibility was to collect the money - they could only spend that which they collected - we would be a lot better off."

He said independence could liberate Scotland from a "dependency culture".

Smiley Tony Blair said:

His comments were dismissed by Prime Minister Tony Blair as "self-indulgent and absurd".

Aye, keep them on benefits, then they'll be sure to vote Labour. Sweet.

Excellent I had hoped someone would pick up on this. I am of the opinion that an elite of Scottish business people saw the opening of the Scottish Parliament as an opportunity to finally get access to power in their wee goldfish bowl as in the bigger picture they are small fry when you look at the Sunday Times rich list. The level of influence they can exert in such a small parochial government will be far greater than they could ever exert at Westminster where their donations are run of the mill. I feel they assumed that they thought they could get more out of Salmond as he his at heart a fat tory. The difficulty is that they know as wel as any other rational human being that for a country as rich and successful as ours to go through a crippling constitutional split would be utter folly.

In short they have bought into the beast and now are finding it difficult to control it, which is why Farmer chose the press to sideswipe fatty instead of just phoning his mobile which i'm sure he has on speed dial.

[H_B]

He said independence could liberate Scotland from a "dependency culture".

Nothing can liberate our fat, lazy, benefit scrounging population from being fat lazy and benefit scrounging.

[H_B]

Make no mistake. England has a lot to lose from us going independent. Financially and defensively.

Izzat so?

"Without North Sea oil revenues, Scotland is an economic basket-case. Although the government does not publish precise numbers, the Office for National Statistics reckons that in 2005 public spending accounted for more than 50% of GDP and that Scottish tax receipts contributed just 75% of this figure, leaving a putative budget deficit of a whopping 13% of GDP, or £13bn. But add in North Sea oil revenues – the SNP claim that more than 90% of UK North Sea oil reserves fall inside Scottish waters – and the deficit falls to around 3%. Scottish opponents of independence argue that oil will not necessarily remain this high for long, and that UK oil production is falling steadily. That means that within a few years, Scotland would face either tough choices on tax and spending or eventual bankruptcy. But that is surely a reason to move quickly, rather than not at all – and for the English to try to get shot of Scotland as soon as possible. Scotland has a brief window of opportunity in which it must decide whether it wants to take responsibility for its own prosperity, using the cushion of high oil prices to make the difficult choices necessary to emulate Ireland and Norway or to settle for several more generations as a client state of the English. "

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/37228/scotti...dependence.html

[Macca SAFC]

Izzat so?

"Without North Sea oil revenues, Scotland is an economic basket-case. Although the government does not publish precise numbers, the Office for National Statistics reckons that in 2005 public spending accounted for more than 50% of GDP and that Scottish tax receipts contributed just 75% of this figure, leaving a putative budget deficit of a whopping 13% of GDP, or £13bn. But add in North Sea oil revenues – the SNP claim that more than 90% of UK North Sea oil reserves fall inside Scottish waters – and the deficit falls to around 3%. Scottish opponents of independence argue that oil will not necessarily remain this high for long, and that UK oil production is falling steadily. That means that within a few years, Scotland would face either tough choices on tax and spending or eventual bankruptcy. But that is surely a reason to move quickly, rather than not at all – and for the English to try to get shot of Scotland as soon as possible. Scotland has a brief window of opportunity in which it must decide whether it wants to take responsibility for its own prosperity, using the cushion of high oil prices to make the difficult choices necessary to emulate Ireland and Norway or to settle for several more generations as a client state of the English. "

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/37228/scotti...dependence.html

Says it all eh why should we be a client state of anybody when we in our own right are our own country i just dont understand why so many other small countrys can do it however people think we would fall flat on our faces, as for oil Ireland has f**k all oil yet they have a small independent country to be proud of.

ant

[H_B]

Says it all eh why should we be a client state of anybody when we in our own right are our own country i just dont understand

Well, that's fine.

Suggestions on a postcard as to how this budget deficit is going to be addressed.

Also, do you have any idea how many Scots (those that actually bother to work) do so in the UK public sector?

dec