Todders Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 so offering the nats a chance to provide well researched and detailed plans for independence is unfair The union is successful...an independent scotland is a vague notion at present. If the union is so succesful, why is Scotland the sick man of europe with a massive public sector work force and little economic growth. Unionists always claim we have too many problems to go it alone yet actually support the infrastructure that has brought about these very same problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 If the union is so succesful, why is Scotland the sick man of europe with a massive public sector work force and little economic growth. Scotland is certainly not the sick man of Europe. That's just nonsense and disrespectful to countries with social problems far exceeding ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 The burden of proof is on those wishing to break the currently successful status quo.Unemployment is at an incredibly low rate. There are plenty of jobs in Scotland. So many that we can't entice our benefit scroungers to get off their arse and do them because they think it beneath them. Why do you need this burden of proof if you have no doubt that we would be able to govern and finance ourselves? Ignore all the rubbish about oil and finances. These things are transient. What makes us rich today may be gone tomorrow. Money should not come into this. This means that the debate comes down to the great intangible, feelings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Scotland is certainly not the sick man of Europe. That's just nonsense and disrespectful to countries with social problems far exceeding ours. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6739007.stm Why do people continue to support an institution that has overseen a small country that is extremely rich in natural resources become "the wors small country in western Europe"? It really does beggar belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6739007.stmWhy do people continue to support an institution that has overseen a small country that is extremely rich in natural resources become "the wors small country in western Europe"? It really does beggar belief. You do realise that the people who call it that are a bunch of businessmen who lose forty percent of their income, have government regulation of their every day business transaction, and are held accountable to public scruitiny on almost everything they do. The best small country in the world would be one which knows no regulation, has no income tax or corporation tax or NHS or health insurance or pension schemes or limits on golden handshakes. That article is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 The best small country in the world would be one which knows no regulation, has no income tax or corporation tax or NHS or health insurance or pension schemes or limits on golden handshakes. That article is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Note as well that the reason we are so low is because of our shocking health stats. Anyone who blames the government for that is having a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca SAFC Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Note as well that the reason we are so low is because of our shocking health stats. Anyone who blames the government for that is having a laugh. Take health out we would still be 5 or 6 its still not that good considering the natural resources we have, surely a bit of mismanagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Note as well that the reason we are so low is because of our shocking health stats. Anyone who blames the government for that is having a laugh. Aren't the government responsible for education and health any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetooner Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Note as well that the reason we are so low is because of our shocking health stats. Anyone who blames the government for that is having a laugh. Don't you know the previous governments, until the SNP openly forced people to smoke, binge drink, and eat fried foods until our blood turns pink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Take health out we would still be 5 or 6 its still not that good considering the natural resources we have, surely a bit of mismanagement. It's only nations of less than 9 million, including the much vaunted Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland. 4th or 5th on this list isn't that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetooner Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Aren't the government responsible for education and health any more? What has education and health got to do with the fact Scottish (even British) people eat/drink/smoke themselves into early graves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Aren't the government responsible for education and health any more? The only thing wrong with our education system is that we have lazy workshy kids that don't want to work. Our level of healthcare is excellent as well - it's people's choice to smoke, drink and binge their way to an early grave. You can lead a horse to water.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 What has education and health got to do with the fact Scottish (even British) people eat/drink/smoke themselves into early graves? Quite a lot actually. If you can't see the link then you're beyond help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Quite a lot actually. If you can't see the link then you're beyond help. I see. So people don't know that stuffing their faces with fried food, smoking like a chimeny and drinking like a fish has a health side effect. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetooner Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Quite a lot actually. If you can't see the link then you're beyond help. The knowledge that smoking, binge drinking and eating unhealthily has been out there since i was a kid. Once you have problems, there isn't much a semi-decent health system can do about it. You are not forced to eat/smoke/binge drink, and you are not told you are not allowed to go to the Dr for checkups to make sure you are staying healthy. What more can the Government do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 The knowledge that smoking, binge drinking and eating unhealthily has been out there since i was a kid. Once you have problems, there isn't much a semi-decent health system can do about it. You are not forced to eat/smoke/binge drink, and you are not told you are not allowed to go to the Dr for checkups to make sure you are staying healthy. What more can the Government do? It's even reached the stage where supermarkets are being banned from offering good deals on booze because these numbskulls can't control themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Burgundy Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Why do you need this burden of proof if you have no doubt that we would be able to govern and finance ourselves? Ignore all the rubbish about oil and finances. These things are transient. What makes us rich today may be gone tomorrow. Money should not come into this.This means that the debate comes down to the great intangible, feelings! well why would you suggest we instantly dive straight back into the european union, is it because of the trade opportunities and financial stability it offers to us with our closest neighbours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca SAFC Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 It's only nations of less than 9 million, including the much vaunted Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland. 4th or 5th on this list isn't that bad. 5 or 6 is still bad for a country with as much natural resources as we have even them a side why are Ireland doing so well compared to us? Why are they so different there are about the same size? Can we not do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 well why would you suggest we instantly dive straight back into the european union, is it because of the trade opportunities and financial stability it offers to us with our closest neighbours? The Gray Ghosts desire for independence is not based on economics. Its based on, as you put it, a feeling. The Gray Ghost has outlined why he would like to see Scotland independent within Europe already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Can we not do better? Yes, possibly. We can also do worse. That's the gamble. Note that on GDP we are actually ahead of the likes of France, Germany, Japan, Italy and Spain. http://www.fsb.org.uk/policy/rpu/scotland/...uccess_2007.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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