Independence For Scotland

[bluetooner]

Scrapped bridge tolls. Thank the lord for Alex Salmond eh?

How is he going to keep the upkeep and safety of the bridges then?

[Wee Bully]

I thought I was on Salmondwatch...

I guessed as much

and anyway you fucking love me.

A little.

[Wee Bully]

How is he going to keep the upkeep and safety of the bridges then?

In the same way as the upkeep and safety of all the previously untolled bridges is maintained?

[H_B]

I had typed out a longer reply to your post but is was lost in the

void of the fecking IPS errors.

But you quoted them as "fact".

They are facts from the Office of National Statistics. Slightly better than "err, a top economic expert says so".

Ah, the Scottish cringe. We are better off in the Union, because the English are better than we are.

You are aware that Scottish people are also part of the Union? Indeed, you have just contradicted your own point by suggesting some deference to the English then pointing out the guys in charge are err, Scottish!

The point is picking from a talent pool of 65 million is infinitely better than picking from a talent pool of 5 million.

It's why local councillors are shit, MSPs are slightly less shit and MPs are less shit still.

I'm glad we have established that. However, for you, that is a volte-face of Wendy like proportions.

I still think Scotland would face a number of problems re-employing the massive numbers of UK public sector staff we have.

[KiwiDB]

Sorted, I'll be party chairman/general secretary - I would nominate Burgandy as party leader. We also need a smart logo and a pithy catchphrase.

We won't need any policies, I hear most nationalist parties get by on one.

I'll take on Foreign Secretary, I'm sure I could find us a fair few contacts in the Middle East with a shed load of cash to invest.

[Michael W]

How is he going to keep the upkeep and safety of the bridges then?

The taxpayer, thus losing money which could have been better spent elsewhere. He will then claim we've been robbed blind by Westminster and some idiots will believe him.

On this issue, I believe a new bridge is being built soon. Surely using some of the toll money to fund this would have been a good idea? nah, f**k it, scrap them and blame Westminster instead.

[bluetooner]

In the same way as the upkeep and safety of all the previously untolled bridges is maintained?

Where are they getting all the extra money from (from what i remember, it costs a fortune to keep these bridges safe and not let them rot away to shit).

I know i would far rather pay a little toll, then risk having the thing collapse on me. What a stupid pointless way to win fans.

[Wee Bully]

They are facts from the Office of National Statistics. Slightly better than "err, a top economic expert says so".

No, they are not. Your original post said:

Although the government does not publish precise numbers, the Office for National Statistics reckons

They are therefore not facts, but guesstimates.

You are aware that Scottish people are also part of the Union? Indeed, you have just contradicted your own point by suggesting some deference to the English then pointing out the guys in charge are err, Scottish!

The point is picking from a talent pool of 65 million is infinitely better than picking from a talent pool of 5 million.

It's why local councillors are shit, MSPs are slightly less shit and MPs are less shit still.

Perhaps you should read the whole section in context. Sound the words out in your head - it's easier that way.

Anyway, onto the substantive point. So, our MP's are the "top of the tree"? If so, are you expecting them to remain in the UK parliament after independence (representing what I wonder), or be involved in Scottish politics.

Just because there is a bigger pool to draw from, doesn't mean that quality goes up. The USA is far bigger than the UK, and would appear to have more "buffoons" in politics than we have.

I still think Scotland would face a number of problems re-employing the massive numbers of UK public sector staff we have.

Are we not planning on having a public sector then? Radical, but it could work.

[Wee Bully]

Where are they getting all the extra money from (from what i remember, it costs a fortune to keep these bridges safe and not let them rot away to shit).

I know i would far rather pay a little toll, then risk having the thing collapse on me. What a stupid pointless way to win fans.

Perhaps from the same place that the money comes from for all the other bridges. Or are you suggesting (I have a sympathy with it) that only bridges in Fife need a toll?

[Michael W]

Perhaps from the same place that the money comes from for all the other bridges. Or are you suggesting (I have a sympathy with it) that only bridges in Fife need a toll?

Yes it will, the burden has been switched from the users to the taxpayer. How kind of Mr Salmond.

[bluetooner]

Just because there is a bigger pool to draw from, doesn't mean that quality goes up. The USA is far bigger than the UK, and would appear to have more "buffoons" in politics than we have.

Not saying i disagree with it, but in what way are you saying that they do?

Perhaps from the same place that the money comes from for all the other bridges. Or are you suggesting (I have a sympathy with it) that only bridges in Fife need a toll?

SO is that place suddenly going to have the extra money lying around to cover the extra bridges it has to fund? DOes the SNP have a magical money making machine that means they can get extra money on request?

[Wee Bully]

SO is that place suddenly going to have the extra money lying around to cover the extra bridges it has to fund? DOes the SNP have a magical money making machine that means they can get extra money on request?

Let me get this straight in my head.

There are 1,000's of bridges in Scotland.

Only 2 have tolls - both leading into Fife. The people using these bridges should continue to pay, when no-one else does?

[bluetooner]

Let me get this straight in my head.

There are 1,000's of bridges in Scotland.

Only 2 have tolls - both leading into Fife. The people using these bridges should continue to pay, when no-one else does?

Why not. I don't pay for other people to hire a prostitute. I think Tolls are extremely fair.

ALso, the other thing to think about (and one i have constantly said) - how much is the upkeep of the Tolled bridges compared to other bridges?

[H_B]

No, they are not. Your original post said:

They are based on the only empirical data available. As I said, certainly a lot better than the random hopeful guesses of "top economists". You don't seem to have a similar problem with these items represented as "ACTUAL FACTS" without any err facts at all from any source. Why?

Perhaps you should read the whole section in context. Sound the words out in your head - it's easier that way.

Your post says exactly :-Ah, the Scottish cringe. We are better off in the Union, because the English are better than we are. If they aren't, why would their "buffoons" be any better than our own. After all, the last 2 Prime Ministers have been Scottish (although one denies it), and a good proportion of the senior cabinet posts.

The buffoons I was referring to are in Holyrood. I thought that was obvious. The quality of MSP is absolutely disgusting.

If so, are you expecting them to remain in the UK parliament after independence (representing what I wonder), or be involved in Scottish politics.

I would expect the current crop to remain in the UK parliament, yes. Representing English constituencies, like say, George Galloway aready does/did. Certainly the talented ones.

No doubt we would get the Major Eric Joyces of this world back.

Just because there is a bigger pool to draw from, doesn't mean that quality goes up.

Eh? Are you seriously suggesting picking from Scotland only as opposed to the entire UK won't have a detrimental effect on the quality of politician?

Seriously?

Are we not planning on having a public sector then? Radical, but it could work.

I assume we (country of 5 million) aren't planning to have a public sector the same size as the UK? Perhaps we are!

The point being a higher percentage of Scots are employed in the public sector than our friends down south. More than we would need or want for our own public sector.

[Wee Bully]

They are based on the only empirical data available. As I said, certainly a lot better than the random hopeful guesses of "top economists". You don't seem to have a similar problem with these items represented as "ACTUAL FACTS" without any err facts at all from any source. Why?

I didn't mention "top economists". My numbers come from "government spokesmen".

The buffoons I was referring to are in Holyrood. I thought that was obvious. The quality of MSP is absolutely disgusting.

Not obvious at all.

I would expect the current crop to remain in the UK parliament, yes. Representing English constituencies, like say, George Galloway aready does/did. Certainly the talented ones.

Why would you expect that? Is it better in England?

Eh? Are you seriously suggesting picking from Scotland only as opposed to the entire UK won't have a detrimental effect on the quality of politician?

Seriously?

Yes, I am suggesting that. I think the quality of the majority of Scottish politicians is as high, if not higher, than those from the rest of the UK. I will admit that none of them is sleeping with a Cheeky Girl, but that aside...

Perhaps I'm just not embarrassed to be Scottish, and don't assume that everyone else must be better.

I assume we (country of 5 million) aren't planning to have a public sector the same size as the UK? Perhaps we are!

The point being a higher percentage of Scots are employed in the public sector than our friends down south. More than we would need or want for our own public sector.

Why would the size of the Scottish public sector change, and who suggested it would increase to the size of the UK public sector? Why would we not need or want these public sector jobs?

[Wee Bully]

Why not. I don't pay for other people to hire a prostitute. I think Tolls are extremely fair.

ALso, the other thing to think about (and one i have constantly said) - how much is the upkeep of the Tolled bridges compared to other bridges?

OK, lets move this on then.

Do you think equity is important? If so, presumably all bridges should either be tolled or not. Are you therefore suggesting adding tolls to the rest of the bridges in Scotland? What about Motorways? Should we toll them too?

[H_B]

I didn't mention "top economists". My numbers come from "government spokesmen".

I'm sorry - I didnt see your figures. I was referring to the St Mirren fan earlier. What are your figures?

Not obvious at all.

To you perhaps. I think others seemed to grasp it.

Why would you expect that? Is it better in England?

It's bigger. A Parliament which is serving a real player on the world stage, with influence, not a small nation state that wishes to join a European superstate.

Yes, I am suggesting that. I think the quality of the majority of Scottish politicians is as high, if not higher, than those from the rest of the UK.

Then your point is just ludicrous. What do you have against the English incidentally?

Perhaps I'm just not embarrassed to be Scottish, and don't assume that everyone else must be better.

Where have I said English people are better? If there were 60 million Scots and 5 million English it would be the same in reverse. It's purely a numbers game.

Unless you are suggesting English people aren't as bright as Scots?

Why would the size of the Scottish public sector change, and who suggested it would increase to the size of the UK public sector? Why would we not need or want these public sector jobs?

I will repeat the point again as you clearly didn't read it the last time.

We employ a greater percentage of the UK public sector workforce than we form part of the UK population.

[bluetooner]

OK, lets move this on then.

Do you think equity is important? If so, presumably all bridges should either be tolled or not. Are you therefore suggesting adding tolls to the rest of the bridges in Scotland? What about Motorways? Should we toll them too?

Again, the main point is that the cost of keeping the Forth for example, is far far greater than the cost of keeping some 1 lane over a stream bridge in the highlands. That is why they have a toll on them, which is fair enough. If the cost of keeping other bridges are just as high, then yes - have a toll on them too. Motorways also.

[H_B]

Just to clarify this :- Are you really suggesting that picking from a talent pool of 5 million as opposed to picking from a talent pool of 65 million will not be detrimental to the quality of skilled employee?

I think that's one of the stupidest things I've ever read, which surprises me as you clearly aren't stupid.

[Scary Bear]

I don't know. It is a genuine question, since i am out of the country i have no idea. I haven't even said they are unable, whereas Piehutt has claimed them as doing an amazingly excellent job for the country, with Alex Salmond being the best politician ever (yes an exaggeration, but nm). Therefore i will ask again, and maybe someone will answer this time. What has Salmond and the Nats done to benefit the country so greatly?

To be honest I can't think of much the SNP have done that's greatly pleased me, but they've only been in power for a year. They abolished road bridge tolls on the Tay and Forth Bridges. That suits me but it's hardly ground breaking stuff. They gave the o.k. to the trams and I'm for the trams as I own a flat in the centre of Edinburgh, so that suits me too, although it was the Lib/Lab coalition that did all the hard work. They pissed me off doing away with EARL (Edinburgh Airport Rail Link). That would have benefitted Edinburgh enormously, but they have trams instead, so that's something.

In 10 years of power, the only things the Liberal/Labour government did that I really liked, were introduce a smoking ban in public places and introducing trams in Edinburgh.