The Cricket Thread

[jaggyness]

On 09/05/2023 at 16:17, Fuctifano said:

Archer definitely won't be playing, can't ever see him playing red ball cricket again tbh. I think they'll play Wood in a couple of Tests if he's available, again there's no chance he sees all 5.

Somewhat predictably, Archer ruled out for the ashes and the season with another stress fracture. Bairstow recalled over Foakes for the Ireland test.

[Savage Henry]

7 hours ago, jaggyness said:

Somewhat predictably, Archer ruled out for the ashes and the season with another stress fracture. Bairstow recalled over Foakes for the Ireland test.

Not a fan of (temporarily) fatty Bairstow behind the stumps, but it’s the only place to get him in the starting eleven.  

[peasy23]

On 16/05/2023 at 10:03, jaggyness said:

Somewhat predictably, Archer ruled out for the ashes and the season with another stress fracture. Bairstow recalled over Foakes for the Ireland test.

No other country breaks fast bowlers like England does.

[peasy23]

Can't be many pace bowlers to have lasted 20 years at Test level.

 

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, peasy23 said:

Can't be many pace bowlers to have lasted 20 years at Test level.

 

And to think they took a year of that out by buggering around with his bowling action.  The best fast bowler of all time?

[peasy23]

42 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

And to think they took a year of that out by buggering around with his bowling action.  The best fast bowler of all time?

The ECB buggering around with a perfectly good bowling action? Well I never.

He must be up there, the number of wickets speaks for itself.

[Savage Henry]

6 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

The ECB buggering around with a perfectly good bowling action? Well I never.

He must be up there, the number of wickets speaks for itself.

I can remember it being a big thing on TMS and Sky Sports.  Everyone harping on about how he doesn’t look at where the ball will pitch - so they tried to get him to adjust his head position throughout his bowling action.  He pretty much got the yips and ended up getting dropped.  Eventually they scrapped the whole idea and here we all are.  

[Fuctifano]

Hadn't watched any of the IPL but caught end of the final, Jadeja hit 10 off the last 2 to win a rain delayed match. 

Incredible length of presentation ceremony, might genuinely have been an hour and the trophy was handed over at 3am local time, think even if I was a diehard fan of Chennai I'd have sacked it off by that point. 

[dirty dingus]

11 hours ago, Fuctifano said:

Hadn't watched any of the IPL but caught end of the final, Jadeja hit 10 off the last 2 to win a rain delayed match. 

Incredible length of presentation ceremony, might genuinely have been an hour and the trophy was handed over at 3am local time, think even if I was a diehard fan of Chennai I'd have sacked it off by that point. 

I watched it live here in India and was well passed 2 when I turned it off, was going to go down for it as Ahmedabad is only 7hrs by train but they weren't any tickets available. Thought it was a bit unfair on the Titans as the reduced overs meant Chennai could afford to lose more wickets so could swing away. Was some finish mind you after Dhoni went out for a duck as he tried to steal the limelight I thought CSK had blown it. Well done Jadeja 2 classic shots to grab the win.

[Fuctifano]

Yeah, would agree that DLS tends to favour the chasing team. Gujarat scored at 10.7 per over but Chennai only had to go at 11.4 (6.5% higher run rate) despite having 25% less balls to face and could attack accordingly. 

[peasy23]

Surprise inclusion of Josh Tongue in England's team for the Test against Ireland. Woakes was expected to return.

[PB1994]

Broad is fairly ripping through the Ireland top order. 19/3 in the 7th over with Broad taking all 3 wickets.

Edited June 1, 2023 by PB1994

[jaggyness]

Be surprised if England aren't at the very least well on their way to Ireland's total by the close today with Bazball in effect 

[Scorge]

This is a complete (but understandable) mismatch - the Nigels could rack up 600/3 by tomorrow teatime off this bowling if they want and roll Ireland over by Saturday lunchtime, tbqhwy.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Scorge

[peasy23]

England cracking along at almost 7 an over, only 30 odd behind already when they only started batting about 90 minutes ago.

[Boo Khaki]

On 22/05/2023 at 12:28, Savage Henry said:

And to think they took a year of that out by buggering around with his bowling action.  The best fast bowler of all time?

Nowhere near for me. 

The numbers are huge, but they play far more Tests these days than they once did, and he has always struggled in places where the ball doesn't move in the air. The genuine greats were great in all conditions and on all surfaces and had more than one string to their bow. He also routinely got splattered all over the place in limited overs internationals.

He's had a great career, especially in the context of how ropey the first 5 years or so were, but I don't believe he's the same calibre of bowler as the genuine greats. I'd say that just in the time I've watched Test cricket, Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Donald, Wasim, McGrath, and possibly Ambrose and Walsh were better. I'm talking in terms of talent and ability and who I'd throw the ball to under any and all circumstances, not weight of numbers. I'd personally put Anderson in the next rung down, i.e. very good but not genuinely 'all time great', with the likes of Imran, Pollock, Waqar, and so on.

I think the nature of Test cricket has changed a lot over the past 30 years or so, so perhaps it isn't realistic to compare current era players with those whose careers were largely prior to the turn of the millennium. I'm not convinced that bowling and taking wickets is either easier, or more difficult than it used to be, because I think you can make arguments for both cases, but it certainly feels that on top of just playing more cricket, there are more results, shorter games, and numbers are generally higher across the board, so perhaps it's a bit apples and oranges.

[jaggyness]

21 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Nowhere near for me. 

The numbers are huge, but they play far more Tests these days than they once did, and he has always struggled in places where the ball doesn't move in the air. The genuine greats were great in all conditions and on all surfaces and had more than one string to their bow. He also routinely got splattered all over the place in limited overs internationals.

He's had a great career, especially in the context of how ropey the first 5 years or so were, but I don't believe he's the same calibre of bowler as the genuine greats. I'd say that just in the time I've watched Test cricket, Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Donald, Wasim, McGrath, and possibly Ambrose and Walsh were better. I'm talking in terms of talent and ability and who I'd throw the ball to under any and all circumstances, not weight of numbers. I'd personally put Anderson in the next rung down, i.e. very good but not genuinely 'all time great', with the likes of Imran, Pollock, Waqar, and so on.

I think the nature of Test cricket has changed a lot over the past 30 years or so, so perhaps it isn't realistic to compare current era players with those whose careers were largely prior to the turn of the millennium. I'm not convinced that bowling and taking wickets is either easier, or more difficult than it used to be, because I think you can make arguments for both cases, but it certainly feels that on top of just playing more cricket, there are more results, shorter games, and numbers are generally higher across the board, so perhaps it's a bit apples and oranges.

I like a lot of this but as much as I think Jimmy is great I think someone would have to be going some to be the best fast bowler in my lifetime and be ahead of Glenn McGrath. 

[Moomintroll]

32 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Nowhere near for me. 

The numbers are huge, but they play far more Tests these days than they once did, and he has always struggled in places where the ball doesn't move in the air. The genuine greats were great in all conditions and on all surfaces and had more than one string to their bow. He also routinely got splattered all over the place in limited overs internationals.

He's had a great career, especially in the context of how ropey the first 5 years or so were, but I don't believe he's the same calibre of bowler as the genuine greats. I'd say that just in the time I've watched Test cricket, Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Donald, Wasim, McGrath, and possibly Ambrose and Walsh were better. I'm talking in terms of talent and ability and who I'd throw the ball to under any and all circumstances, not weight of numbers. I'd personally put Anderson in the next rung down, i.e. very good but not genuinely 'all time great', with the likes of Imran, Pollock, Waqar, and so on.

I think the nature of Test cricket has changed a lot over the past 30 years or so, so perhaps it isn't realistic to compare current era players with those whose careers were largely prior to the turn of the millennium. I'm not convinced that bowling and taking wickets is either easier, or more difficult than it used to be, because I think you can make arguments for both cases, but it certainly feels that on top of just playing more cricket, there are more results, shorter games, and numbers are generally higher across the board, so perhaps it's a bit apples and oranges.

Maico is the GOAT for me, said it before but with that many Tests he would have taken far more wickets & he would have smashed it everywhere in T20s.

[Boo Khaki]

7 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Maico is the GOAT for me, said it before but with that many Tests he would have taken far more wickets & he would have smashed it everywhere in T20s.

If you absolutely forced me into giving an opinion on the single GOAT, then I'd probably suggest Marshall. He was an absolute wizard with the ball, capable of bowling in any conditions, and getting the absolute most out of what was there even if that meant bowling 70mph cutters. 

The only equivalent I can really think of in terms of sheer talent, ingenuity, know-how, and cunning would be Warne, but the two are never compared for obvious reasons. That is really the only other bowler I can think of who I can recall watching and realising you were witnessing an unquestioned genius at work. MM really was that good.

[Scorge]

25 minutes ago, jaggyness said:

I like a lot of this but as much as I think Jimmy is great I think someone would have to be going some to be the best fast bowler in my lifetime and be ahead of Glenn McGrath. 

Yup - I don't go for numbers too much, but McGrath could bowl better in England than Anderson ever could in Australia. We're talking fine margins at this level though.

(Walsh for me, personally. Felt he had much more cunning about him.)