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Madeleine Mccann Missing Girl

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They are guilty of gross negligence and no amount of nonsense spouted from you changes that fact.

We all know you like to disagree with people just to spite them Sam it's what you do best but that dosent change the fact that I am right in my stance and other people have agreed with me.

Maybe when have kids you will see the foolishness of what you have said Sam as leaving that number of kids unsupervised is just tempting fate they simply should have been less selfish or stupid. My mother was far from a perfect mother but one thing she would never have done is leave me or my brothers or sister unsupervised it's something you don't do especially at that age if you are a responsible parent. Many people have kids and get annoyed that they get in the way of their lifestyle if that's the case don't have bloody kids in the first place.

Am I being harsh maybe but when it comes to the welfare of kids I wont miss words, you have Kids you are responsible for them 24/7 and they neglected those responsibilities. That is fact and not up for debate Sam.

You will also notice that parents have agreed with me sadly you believe you are always right even when you are wrong.

In this case you couldn't be more wrong.

You have slagged me off throughout that post. Perhaps we can continue this discussion, when you don't behave this way? :)

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That is my whole point here - obviously parents can take extra measures to ensure their childs safety (which most people on this thread believe these parents failed to do on this occasion, and that's fair enough) but children are never 100% safe.

It's not a bad point to note either, that when you tuck your children up in bed at night, and then leave them in a room seperate to yours, unsupervised for six/seven hours whilst you both sleep, someone could easily break into your house and snatch them without you ever knowing about it. As I said previously on the thread, where there's a will, there's a way.

I think the way these parents are being spoken about by certain posters on here is extremely harsh. Like Phoenix says - its these people who will have to live with that mistake for the rest of their lives, there's no point in ramming the point home and accusing them of being bad parents, or indeed unfit to care for their children when there are a lot of real bad parents in this world.

What is harsh?

At the end of the day, it is bad parenting!

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What is harsh?

At the end of the day, it is bad parenting!

Well, fair enough.

I don't really see the point in punishing these people, if their daughter is not found alive and well then that will be punishment enough for them. To suggest that they deserve this to happen to them is a little extreme and distasteful in my opinion.

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Well, fair enough.

I don't really see the point in punishing these people, if their daughter is not found alive and well then that will be punishment enough for them. To suggest that they deserve this to happen to them is a little extreme and distasteful in my opinion.

I have never said they deserved this and would never do so.

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I have never said they deserved this and would never do so.

No, you didn't, but the person I took issue with on this thread from the very beginning did say that.

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Guest SavotheGreat
Fucks sake! When they find her (hopefully alive) both children they should taken off this couple and put them into care, they obviously have no fucking idea and in a way deserve this to happen!

Some people really don't deserve to have children!

Just hope nothing happens to the child :(

Tough shit you have kids you are responsible for them!

If they didnt want the inconvenience of kids they should either not taken them or not had any!

Look at this, its the moral authority.

Granted, the parents behaved entirely irresponsibly, but does that put you in a rightful position to pass judgement? Please, plaster your life all over the news and let us pass judgement. Your vitriol is a product of spending FAR too much time on here and far too little in the real world, unbeknown to you, people make mistakes ;)

The priority should be finding this little girl, hopefully they will.

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This is the first time I've read this thread and I must say I'm a bit surprised at the general tone , I doubt anything said would be news to these parents , I reckon they've got a wee inckling that they f'ked up , they've probably mulled it over a few times over the last couple of days :huh:

I really can't possibly imagine just how terrifying this must be for them , it doesn't bear thinking about , and to know all along that things could've been so different :(

I was on holiday a few years ago where a couple left their kids in the room at night whilst they came down for a drink , we sat with a buggy in tow 24/7 and told them that we couldn't do it , they checked every 20 minutes or so ... just to see if the kids had woken or were crying ... not to see if someone had jemmied the shutters open and abducted one of them !

I guess the culprit (either a paedophile or a 'wanabe' mum) was working or staying in the complex and had spotted that little girl during the day and had then noticed what the parents were doing at night ... in that case , the very act of checking on the kids showed the way :(

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This is the first time I've read this thread and I must say I'm a bit surprised at the general tone , I doubt anything said would be news to these parents , I reckon they've got a wee inckling that they f'ked up , they've probably mulled it over a few times over the last couple of days :huh:

I really can't possibly imagine just how terrifying this must be for them , it doesn't bear thinking about , and to know all along that things could've been so different :(

I was on holiday a few years ago where a couple left their kids in the room at night whilst they came down for a drink , we sat with a buggy in tow 24/7 and told them that we couldn't do it , they checked every 20 minutes or so ... just to see if the kids had woken or were crying ... not to see if someone had jemmied the shutters open and abducted one of them !

I guess the culprit (either a paedophile or a 'wanabe' mum) was working or staying in the complex and had spotted that little girl during the day and had then noticed what the parents were doing at night ... in that case , the very act of checking on the kids showed the way :(

It was reported that the person police believe to have been responsible, had been watching the comings and goings of the family for a few days previous. I'm not sure of the credibility of that, but there you go. It's a sad situation and I feel very sorry for them.

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I feel very sorry for them as well, but that is tempered a bit with a little annoyance i must say.

I couldn't leave my boy anywhere I don't think. He evens comes into the Drouthy for a while with his auld faither for a cola and to get his pounds from the Ayrboys. ;) Sam is suggesting that bad things can happen that are beyond anyones control, which is true, but there's no need to allow the opportunity to arise needlessly.

I do feel as if it's rather sad to be calling for beheadings for these parents, as I'm sure they'll be crucifying themselves amply as it is.

I hope they find the girl soon, alive and well.

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It was a dreadful mistake by the parents - one that I'm sure they'll be cursing right now. I desperately hope this wee girl is found alive and well, and I am utterly appalled at the attitudes of some of the posters on here.

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It was a dreadful mistake by the parents - one that I'm sure they'll be cursing right now. I desperately hope this wee girl is found alive and well, and I am utterly appalled at the attitudes of some of the posters on here.

I'm sure some Chav/Ned family would be getting such an easy ride in the Media.

I'm sure it is a criminal offence in this country to leave kids under a certain age unattended.

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I'm sure some Chav/Ned family would be getting such an easy ride in the Media.

I'm sure it is a criminal offence in this country to leave kids under a certain age unattended.

They would be crucified!

Been doing some research, read the following links.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/pare...e_wda35965.html

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/html/le...g_children.html

"The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) advises that no child should be left alone under the age of twelve, or overnight under the age of sixteen. Even a short stretch without a parent or another adult around can be distressing and lonely for a young child. Most eight to thirteen year olds, even if they feel happy about being left, may not be ready to cope in an emergency."

http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/portal/page?_page...;_schema=PORTAL

"The NSPCC have issued guidelines advising that children under the age of 13 should not be left alone. While this recommendation does not have the force of law, it is suggested as good practice. "

http://www.youthinformation.com/Templates/...sp?NodeID=90131

"There is no law that determines the minimum age that a child can be left alone. However, there is a law about neglecting children and you are legally responsible for the safety of your child. Babies and young children should never be left on their own, however tempting it may seem when a child is asleep and you only plan to be out for a while."

"Never leave babies or young children home alone (whether sleeping or awake), not even for a few minutes. "

"If they are alerted, the police or social services may take action if they think that a child has been neglected by being left alone. Neglect happens when a parent or carer doesn't meet children’s basic needs of food, shelter, security, attention or protection from exposure to danger."

I'm not saying they should have the children taken off them but I obviously I have to justify my comments to some people earlier as they felt they were harsh.

They willingly left them alone, nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to leave the children alone, it is neglect however way you want to look at it and the law would find them negligent in this country. I have no doubt they are sufering just now but that dosent change the fact that they are guilty of neglect, how do we know this hasnt happened before?

Oh SavotheGreat I was under the impression this wasnt a thread on me but on the missing girl and the parents. If you want to start a thread discussing my flaws and let everybody pass judgement go ahead.

I have flaws I know and I'm very much aware of them and would never claim I was perfect but the fact remains everybody knows what kind of world we live in today and they simply should not have not taken the risk full-stop and in this country it would be deemed breaking the law as my links above testify.

You have slagged me off throughout that post. Perhaps we can continue this discussion, when you don't behave this way? :)

Sam I've read how you reply to people, pot calling kettle black comes to mind.

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It was a dreadful mistake by the parents - one that I'm sure they'll be cursing right now. I desperately hope this wee girl is found alive and well, and I am utterly appalled at the attitudes of some of the posters on here.

Mistakes are when you lose house keys or forget to pay a bill on time etc etc.

Leaving kids at that age alone isnt a "mistake" it was a choice and one that was freely made.

Edited by Steven

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Guest SavotheGreat
They would be crucified!

Been doing some research, read the following links.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/pare...e_wda35965.html

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/html/le...g_children.html

"The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) advises that no child should be left alone under the age of twelve, or overnight under the age of sixteen. Even a short stretch without a parent or another adult around can be distressing and lonely for a young child. Most eight to thirteen year olds, even if they feel happy about being left, may not be ready to cope in an emergency."

http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/portal/page?_page...;_schema=PORTAL

"The NSPCC have issued guidelines advising that children under the age of 13 should not be left alone. While this recommendation does not have the force of law, it is suggested as good practice. "

http://www.youthinformation.com/Templates/...sp?NodeID=90131

"There is no law that determines the minimum age that a child can be left alone. However, there is a law about neglecting children and you are legally responsible for the safety of your child. Babies and young children should never be left on their own, however tempting it may seem when a child is asleep and you only plan to be out for a while."

"Never leave babies or young children home alone (whether sleeping or awake), not even for a few minutes. "

"If they are alerted, the police or social services may take action if they think that a child has been neglected by being left alone. Neglect happens when a parent or carer doesn't meet children’s basic needs of food, shelter, security, attention or protection from exposure to danger."

I'm not saying they should have the children taken off them but I obviously I have to justify my comments to some people earlier as they felt they were harsh.

They willingly left them alone, nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to leave the children alone, it is neglect however way you want to look at it and the law would find them negligent in this country. I have no doubt they are sufering just now but that dosent change the fact that they are guilty of neglect, how do we know this hasnt happened before?

Oh SavotheGreat I was under the impression this wasnt a thread on me but on the missing girl and the parents. If you want to start a thread discussing my flaws and let everybody pass judgement go ahead.

I have flaws I know and I'm very much aware of them and would never claim I was perfect but the fact remains everybody knows what kind of world we live in today and they simply should not have not taken the risk full-stop and in this country it would be deemed breaking the law as my links above testify.

Sam I've read how you reply to people, pot calling kettle black comes to mind.

Mistakes are when you lose house keys or forget to pay a bill on time etc etc.

Leaving kids at that age alone isnt a "mistake" it was a choice and one that was freely made.

More nonsensical, ill-informed, judgemental gibberish from the forums moral authority. What exactly do you know about this situation? People these days seem to believe that it is their place to intervene in these situations, perhaps they've been overwhelmed through their libraries of Jeremy Kyle recordings and self-help manuals and are now on their way to being perfectly formed human beings, just like Steven.

This is not your issue, this is not your problem, if you ever make it to University and obtain some form of qualification which will probably give you some ill-conceived sense of worth, you can perhaps get a job with some child protection department and proceed to pick apart struggling families using you intrinsically superior moral judgement. At least then you'll be fully informed over a specific case. It would certainly provide you with a little more legitimacy than your current supernanny inspired ravings.

However, in this particular instance you've surpassed yourself, not content with passing judgement over two parents who are possibly going through THE most traumatic experience in their lives - you strive new boundaries and stretch towards Sam. In all, you've managed to undermine the issue of real importance - finding the little girl. Touche.

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The purpose of this thread is not to locate the girl (that is something we have no control over) but to discuss it and give our views which is what I am doing.

I think you will find a number of other people in this thread have have expressed similar views why not attack them as well? Or is it simply cause I had a go at Sam?

I have first hand experience of neglected kids a while back and since that experience the needs of the child will always be paramount to me. Courts force children to go with their fathers even if they abuse them simply cause the father has right to see their children. What about the rights of the child?

Would I be the perfect parent? no I am very much aware I wouldnt' as such a thing dosent exist and I know I would make more than my fair share of mistakes I freely admit but one thing I know I would do is put the child first over my needs as if you have a child they simply have to come first and that is something they simply did not do in this case and you can argue all you like but it wont change that fact.

With me children and their needs and rights will always come first over adults because of experiences I have had and if that makes me come across as judgemental so be it I wont change who or what I am for forum members who do not agree.

Savo by making snap judgements on me based on what you read in this thread and crucifying me for it you are in fact doing the very same thing as you make out that I am doing to this couple.

This is not your issue, this is not your problem,

So I am not allowed to comment because it is not my issue or problem so does that mean you feel we should all no longer be allowed to voice opinions on matters that do not involve us directly? Will really kill off the General Nonsense section then!

Also Sam suggested I cant comment on this becuase I wasnt a parent, I have never been a pro footballer so I imagine that bans me from commenting on football matters as well and most of the posters on P&B as well!

Edited by Steven

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Sam I've read how you reply to people, pot calling kettle black comes to mind.

No, I don't think so. I think there's a distinct difference between being someone who knows their opinions and being able to communicate them in a serious discussion and someone who can't get their point across without resorting to personal abuse. I'll maybe take your opinions more seriously when you don't continually go off topic to bash my character.

Above all - I don't think I was ever necessarily standing on the other side of the fence to you, more taking issue with the way you were putting your point across and judging these parents. People agree with your stance, and that's fair enough, but people also agree that you are being harsh. I don't have a problem with your feelings on the matter, but the way you're putting them about is just sad, in my opinion.

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More nonsensical, ill-informed, judgemental gibberish from the forums moral authority. What exactly do you know about this situation? People these days seem to believe that it is their place to intervene in these situations, perhaps they've been overwhelmed through their libraries of Jeremy Kyle recordings and self-help manuals and are now on their way to being perfectly formed human beings, just like Steven.

This is not your issue, this is not your problem, if you ever make it to University and obtain some form of qualification which will probably give you some ill-conceived sense of worth, you can perhaps get a job with some child protection department and proceed to pick apart struggling families using you intrinsically superior moral judgement. At least then you'll be fully informed over a specific case. It would certainly provide you with a little more legitimacy than your current supernanny inspired ravings.

However, in this particular instance you've surpassed yourself, not content with passing judgement over two parents who are possibly going through THE most traumatic experience in their lives - you strive new boundaries and stretch towards Sam. In all, you've managed to undermine the issue of real importance - finding the little girl. Touche.

Wow, how much of a p***k can one man be? Of course everyone wants to see the girl back safe and sound, what kind of monster wouldnt? This is an internet forum, people are allowed to voice their own opinion, which is what Steven is doing.

In laymans terms, he is saying the parents neglected their children, this is correct, what are people so upset when that is said? Is it because she is still missing? "its not the time to blame". Its an internet forum, we dont know the people personally involved, is it harsh to say they should be brought to task for an act of gross neglect? No of course it isnt, it wont happen because the family are extremely wealthy and not some little britain style family.

You say "More nonsensical, ill-informed, judgemental gibberish from the forums moral authority." I find this extremely comical, as a young man who has barely sprouted any pubes, this is exactly how most people would describe you. Your comment regarding education was by far the most condescending post I have ever seen on these forums, shame on you.

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This is the first time I've read this thread and I must say I'm a bit surprised at the general tone , I doubt anything said would be news to these parents , I reckon they've got a wee inckling that they f'ked up , they've probably mulled it over a few times over the last couple of days :huh:

I really can't possibly imagine just how terrifying this must be for them , it doesn't bear thinking about , and to know all along that things could've been so different :(

I agree with that entirely and, whilst I don't want to make a habit of this, I also by and large agree with Sam on this thread.

A girl is missing in tragic circumstances and this isn't the time for recriminations and finger pointing. It's disappointing that this thread is full of dogs baying for the blood of the parents but I guess in the new millennium blame culture, not surprising. :(

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I agree with that entirely and, whilst I don't want to make a habit of this, I also by and large agree with Sam on this thread.

A girl is missing in tragic circumstances and this isn't the time for recriminations and finger pointing. It's disappointing that this thread is full of dogs baying for the blood of the parents but I guess in the new millennium blame culture, not surprising. :(

The whole thing started with the childrens family pointing fingers and telling people on TV that the portugese police were hopeless and werent doing enough to help.

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The whole thing started with the childrens family pointing fingers and telling people on TV that the portugese police were hopeless and werent doing enough to help.

That's odd, because when I first saw this story on the news, there was an awful lot of talk about how well the Portuguese police sprang to action, closing airports and such, while setting up searches as soon as the girl was reported missing.

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