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Madeleine Mccann Missing Girl

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The parents seem to be clearly dodgy. Whether that means they deliberately or accidentally harmed her, I can't be sure, but it seems odd otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

 


You may have misunderstood me.

I’m saying I have no idea what happened and people don’t ‘know’ what happened. As I said, hypotheses are absolutely fine as you’ve just outlined above.

My issue is people arguing with certainty that they know better than the army of people that have been working on this case for years.

Nobody knows what happened really.

 

With respect, there is no army of people, Operation Grange is down to two people, they have been at the job for seven years and have yet to come up with anything.
At least one person knows what happened, it's a case of identifying them.

I tend to follow the hypothesis of Goncalo Amaral who was the chief investigating officer on the case. I think he is as much an expert as a bunch of plods from the Met on a busman's holiday.

There's a link to the book below, and he explains why he believes that the child died by accident, and this was covered up by her parents. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and any flaws you can see in his argument.

2 hours ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

A university named after a dog. Hardly reliable. 

I agree, but I think the dog was named after the University. I provided better links lower down just in case.

2 hours ago, GordonD said:

No, Shipman was found guilty. Fred West did himself in before the trial so according to oaksoft he's innocent.

OK, all the other doctors that have killed people, but never faced trial then?

2 hours ago, throbber said:

 


Give us a reasonable hypotheses as to what happened that evening then based on your extensive knowledge on the subject then hot shot.

 

No need for the hot shot jibe, you were the guy that said there was absolutely no evidence of poisoning - you said it with the certainty of, well, a hot shot on the case. I merely offered up information to save you the embarassment of repeating your mistake in future, namely that the girl's mother, a trained anaesthetist (sp?) thought the kids had been drugged.

The best hypothesis I can offer you is the book by Goncalo Amaral, The Truth of the Lie, which is based on the extensive documentation released by the Policial Judicial in 2008. as well as his own recollections of the case, and a reflection on the way it was handled by the British Media.

McScam tried to do him for libel, but the Portuguese Supreme Court found in his favour. Good job, as they had set out to ruin him. The book is available elsewhere in Europe, but English versions are only available online.

http://truthofthelie.com/the-book/

It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.

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1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Says who?

The McCanns, of course, case closed!
Of course there is more evidence than a couple of dogs barking (see what he did there?)
Dogs who got it right 200 times out of 200 up until then.
Then there is the pesky DNA in the flat and the hire car (result of bodily fluid, consistent with a body defrosting.)
And there is the fact that it took them three attempts to come up with a time line.
And that they refused to co operate with police.
And that they have used the fund to promote their bollocks version of events ever since, repeating lies and suing anybody who dares to question their version of events.

Now, how did the abductor do the deed in a window of less than two minutes again?

Edited by Alternative Title

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No need for the hot shot jibe, you were the guy that said there was absolutely no evidence of poisoning - you said it with the certainty of, well, a hot shot on the case. I merely offered up information to save you the embarassment of repeating your mistake in future, namely that the girl's mother, a trained anaesthetist (sp?) thought the kids had been drugged.



There is no embarrassment on my part, the poster said that all evidence pointed towards accidental overdose by the parents which i said there was no evidence of. If Kate says in her book that she believes that the kids were poisoned then that isn’t evidence that the parents drugged her and she died of an accidental over dose is it? I’m not reading Amarals book, I’ve watched the documentary before but I’m sure he said he thought she fell behind the couch and died there? If she died of an accident in the apartment then why stage a kidnap?

Also Jacksgranda asked the question of who said Maddie went to her at 7 o clock - but that is a pretty universal time to put kids to bed at, if you were going to drug your kids to sleep would you not want to to that at around bed time? If they overdose on the drug how long would that take to kill the child, an hour maybe? They were at the Tapas bar for 830 so they would have had to have both decided to go ahead with the kidnap story pretty quickly, then hide the body somewhere no one would find it for about a month without being caught and then go to dinner without any of their friends noticing any sort of odd behaviour from a couple who had just killed and disposed of their first born child when on holiday because they, as doctors, manager to f**k up the dosage.

IMG_1284.jpg

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34 minutes ago, throbber said:

 


There is no embarrassment on my part, the poster said that all evidence pointed towards accidental overdose by the parents which i said there was no evidence of. If Kate says in her book that she believes that the kids were poisoned then that isn’t evidence that the parents drugged her and she died of an accidental over dose is it? I’m not reading Amarals book, I’ve watched the documentary before but I’m sure he said he thought she fell behind the couch and died there? If she died of an accident in the apartment then why stage a kidnap?

Also Jacksgranda asked the question of who said Maddie went to her at 7 o clock - but that is a pretty universal time to put kids to bed at, if you were going to drug your kids to sleep would you not want to to that at around bed time? If they overdose on the drug how long would that take to kill the child, an hour maybe? They were at the Tapas bar for 830 so they would have had to have both decided to go ahead with the kidnap story pretty quickly, then hide the body somewhere no one would find it for about a month without being caught and then go to dinner without any of their friends noticing any sort of odd behaviour from a couple who had just killed and disposed of their first born child when on holiday because they, as doctors, manager to f**k up the dosage.

IMG_1284.jpg

 

Ok, I thought you said there was absolutely no evidence of drugging, sorry.

I suppose the motivation for staging a kidnap would be to save their reputation and a possible prison sentence? You'd have to ask them.

I am not a doctor, and I am not one of the McCanns, I can't tell you how or when you would give drugs. Bear in mind the last sighting of Madeleine was at 5:30. That gives four and a half hours for different scenarios to develop.

Regarding cause of death, it's suggested she fell off the sofa, banged her head, and possibly died of a haemorrhage, causing minimal bleeding out of the ear.

This is based on the splatter pattern on the wall, and blood underneath a floor tile.

Other than that you are just mocking, and accepting their version of events without question.

It might help you if you learned more about high functioning psychopaths, then you could see if they fit the bill.

Meantime, can you tell me how the abductor managed to do the deed?

(I can guess which points you will respond to.)

Edited by Alternative Title

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Nah I assumed you were using the fact Kate said she believed the kids had been drugged as evidence of their parents drugging them to sleep although I could have been clearer in my response.

Staging a kidnap with all the changes of being caught would be far more damaging to their reputation of course though, in the event of an accident there would have been very few circumstances in which she would be stone dead without a chance of help if they just called an ambulance and even then, an accident wouldn’t result in them serving any jail time anyway.

Yes the last sighting of Maddie was at 530 but Gerry never returned from playing tennis 630-7 and in fact asked someone to go in and check in on Kate and the kids at that time to see if they were okay so he wouldn’t have known if anything f was wrong until about 90 minutes before he was seen at tapas which is a very short time for him to cover the entire thing up is it not?

I’m not mocking anyone, I just don’t know how many times I have read people say they believe it’s the parents because of inconsistencies in their story or because they look a bit dodgey throughout their tv appearances without an explanation how they could have disposed of her without anyone finding out. Maybe they are high functioning psychopaths but i still have my doubts.

There are numerous possibilities about an abductor being there, what if there was some collusion with someone watching from a nearby apartment whilst the abduction takes place? What if the abductor had stayed in the apartment previously and had keys cut and walked in the front door?

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7 hours ago, Alternative Title said:

It's almost as if I am a member of some crazy religious sect that expects me to accept all I am told by Goncalo Amaral without question.

FTFY

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33 minutes ago, throbber said:

Nah I assumed you were using the fact Kate said she believed the kids had been drugged as evidence of their parents drugging them to sleep although I could have been clearer in my response.

Staging a kidnap with all the changes of being caught would be far more damaging to their reputation of course though, in the event of an accident there would have been very few circumstances in which she would be stone dead without a chance of help if they just called an ambulance and even then, an accident wouldn’t result in them serving any jail time anyway.

Yes the last sighting of Maddie was at 530 but Gerry never returned from playing tennis 630-7 and in fact asked someone to go in and check in on Kate and the kids at that time to see if they were okay so he wouldn’t have known if anything f was wrong until about 90 minutes before he was seen at tapas which is a very short time for him to cover the entire thing up is it not?

I’m not mocking anyone, I just don’t know how many times I have read people say they believe it’s the parents because of inconsistencies in their story or because they look a bit dodgey throughout their tv appearances without an explanation how they could have disposed of her without anyone finding out. Maybe they are high functioning psychopaths but i still have my doubts.

There are numerous possibilities about an abductor being there, what if there was some collusion with someone watching from a nearby apartment whilst the abduction takes place? What if the abductor had stayed in the apartment previously and had keys cut and walked in the front door?

Rather than debate what might have happened if there was no abduction. What evidence is there that an abduction took place?

I don't think it is entirely reliable to go by the timeline provided. The last independent siting was 17:30.

I think it was Oldfield who did the 21:30 check, yet he says he did not see Madeleine, as he didn't look.

He would still have to get the child out in a two minute window, allowing for Gerry charting to Jez Wilkins on the way back, and the time that Jane Tanner spotted a man carrying a child.

I am not a fan on speculating on their personality, however, I think they were more confident they could carry off the abduction story and thought it was a risk worth taking.

I base this on the cock sure attitude from Gerry that suggests a man who looks down on other people as inferior

However, that is not good enough to prove anything. What was required was a proper interrogation after the Cadaverine and the DNA was discovered

Do they really suggest that Portugal would fit them up with the British media watching?

 

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38 minutes ago, Alternative Title said:

 Jane Tanner spotted a man carrying a child.

 

That was quietly dropped a few years ago.

Scotland Yard put out a statement saying that a British holidaymaker came forward and they could be discounted from the investigation. We are supposed to believe that a British parent was in the vicinity of the apartment around the time of the abduction but didn't make a statement to the police for 8 years.....

Or more likely Tanner admitted she made it up and a bullshit story was invented to stop the internet going bonkers.

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56 minutes ago, Detournement said:

That was quietly dropped a few years ago.

Scotland Yard put out a statement saying that a British holidaymaker came forward and they could be discounted from the investigation. We are supposed to believe that a British parent was in the vicinity of the apartment around the time of the abduction but didn't make a statement to the police for 8 years.....

Or more likely Tanner admitted she made it up and a bullshit story was invented to stop the internet going bonkers.

Titter ye not, it's still on the front page of the official find Madeleine site. There is a cockamenny statement along the lines that this man has not officially been confirmed as the man Jane saw.

So now there are two men carrying children at the same time. Although Gerry saw nobody and Jane only saw one.

Still very quiet on the Smith sighting, and Smithman is not even on the front page. Instead he makes up an ID parade of the most unlikely looking artists impressions ever.

Clearly they would rather we spoke about Tannerman than Smithman.

Edited by Alternative Title

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3 hours ago, throbber said:

What if the abductor had stayed in the apartment previously and had keys cut and walked in the front door?

So he had keys cut on the off chance that the place would be occupied by a family who abandoned their 3-year-old child while they were getting pissed?

More likely that she was beamed up by aliens.

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The certainty with which the cadaver dog handler says the kid’s body was stashed in the wardrobe of the apartment at some point is quite unwavering.

In wealthier societies it’s about 70% likely the parents did it, with another 12% being carried out by family friends/acquaintances. So, before even launching an investigation it’s about 1/5 on that the family group was responsible.

Channel 4 Dispatches from 2007 and 2012 Portuguese equivalent are quite interesting:



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So he had keys cut on the off chance that the place would be occupied by a family who abandoned their 3-year-old child while they were getting pissed?
More likely that she was beamed up by aliens.


How many others of the Tapas 7 had kids alone in their apartments that they were checking up on? Were they not all at it?

All hypothesis can be made to look highly unlikely with intense scrutiny tbf, including the idea she left the apartment and was snatched outside.

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2 hours ago, throbber said:

 


How many others of the Tapas 7 had kids alone in their apartments that they were checking up on? Were they not all at it?

All hypothesis can be made to look highly unlikely with intense scrutiny tbf, including the idea she left the apartment and was snatched outside.

I think the thing about this case is that all theories were explored by the Portuguese, with assistance from Scotland Yard.

It was SY, who have the largest database of missing kids in the world, who advised to look at the parents in the July.

This led to the dogs being brought over from South Yorkshire Police. It was the dogs alerts and the DNA found that were the catalyst for questioning then effectively under caution

What is the mystery to me, is how they were able to leave the country when it was pretty obvious they were conspiring to obstruct the investigation.

Maybe someone high up in Portugal didn't think it was worth the hassle they'd get from someone high up in Britain?

They may well have been the price of something else that Portugal needed from Britain in the lead up to the Lisbon treaty.

What is known is that Operation Grange had ruled out the wandering off theory as implausible, in light of everything else they know.

Ps, only two couples were doing the checking. One couple had a baby monitor, the other had the father at home.

 

Edited by Alternative Title

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Joining a football to post exclusively about Madeleine McCann is really fucking weird.

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Just now, eez-eh said:

Joining a football to post exclusively about Madeleine McCann is really fucking weird.

It'll  be something to do when the golf course is shut.

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32 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Joining a football to post exclusively about Madeleine McCann is really fucking weird.

Almost as fucking weird as having a thread on the topic in the first place.

If it's any comfort, I was pleased with Hibs performance against Newcastle the other night. Scott Allan is looking good.

Newcastle were miles better though, but despite Joelinton looking a good signing , I reckon they are for the drop.

Don't worry I'm one of the gang, can't stand people who push from the back though to ingratiate themselves to others though.

Actually, commenting on other people's motivation for posting is really weird. It makes you sound slightly moralistic, or narrow minded. I'm not quite sure.

Edited by Alternative Title

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...children being unresponsive (Glasgow Coma Scale 15) ...
 


Swing and a miss with this one. GCS 15 is fully awake, alert and responsive.

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