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Too true.You dont know the minute.

What baffles me is how some people are so judgemental and take the moral high ground when they have not experienced being a parent.Decisions like allowing my son to play in the street was not taken lightly.I am more relaxed when he is in the house.It is acually more hassle when he is out playing.Then some self rightous people are entitled to compare the situation to having a license for a tv. ;)

Must be the first time I've ever been in full agreement with a Celtic fucker, but there you go :lol:

These other "experts" might understand how wrong they are, if they ever have children of their own :(

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Must be the first time I've ever been in full agreement with a Celtic fucker, but there you go :lol:

These other "experts" might understand how wrong they are, if they ever have children of their own :(

Thanks ! I have never been called a fucker in such a positive manner.

Edited by seamus

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Thanks ! I have never been called a fucker in such a positive manner.

:lol:

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The police now say that she was abducted but are confident she is alive and have a suspect in mind.

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Tough shit you have kids you are responsible for them!

If they didnt want the inconvenience of kids they should either not taken them or not had any!

You are being harsh on this thread, and I find all of your posts a little distasteful and quite judgemental - it's not even like you are speaking from experience. How can you say "I would never do that" - how do you know how you will parent your own children? It's easy to look at other peoples mistakes and vow never to repeat them yourself, but then I bet these parents looked at another families mistakes and vowed never to be the ones to repeat those. At this moment in time, the only important thing in this situation is to find the little girl alive and well, not to cast blame on her parents for leaving her alone.

I'd be interested to hear how many of you child care experts, actually have kids of your own?

I'd say the parents were certain, that having something to eat 50 yards away from where their children were sleeping, was perfectly safe.

I'm sure their feeling bad enoug, without some teenage know it alls judging them :angry:

I agree with you - reading this thread actually made me roll my eyes at certain posters several times.

You cannot physically watch your children every second of every day - it's impossible. Fair enough, some parents might disagree with the way these parents left their children in their room alone whilst they went out to eat, but they were close by and were checking regularly. It's horrific, yes, but it's not the parents' fault. Just like Sarah Payne being abducted and murdered was horrific, but not her mothers fault for letting her out of her sight. Just like the murders of the Soham girls was horrific, but not the fault of their parents for letting them out of their sight. The fact that they were actually in a secure room shows that the parents took measures to ensure their children would be safe.

As for the question from Saints1884 about a fire - are we working on ifs and buts here? If parents thought like that, then their children would sit in a padded room (padded with fire resistant material, obviously) from the moment of birth until the moment of death. Bad things happen to people, carried out by bad people. You can't compensate for that.

Yes.Fortunatley enough it is a decent neighbourhood and the street layout means I can keep an eye him.There are boundaries that he is aware of.Most of the time he is round his friends back or vice versa.He plays with around six kids.He is the youngest out of his group.He will be five in July and starts school.Obviously I mointor the situation.It can be difficult to get the balance between safety and freedom.My house looks onto the main area where he plays which is a park.Do you think that is too young a age?

Is this a joke that is going straight over my head?

Do you actually feel like you have to justify yourself to these posters? I really don't think you need to explain your decision to let your four year old play outside with his friends.

Edited by SaintSam

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Yes.Fortunatley enough it is a decent neighbourhood and the street layout means I can keep an eye him.There are boundaries that he is aware of.Most of the time he is round his friends back or vice versa.He plays with around six kids.He is the youngest out of his group.He will be five in July and starts school.Obviously I mointor the situation.It can be difficult to get the balance between safety and freedom.My house looks onto the main area where he plays which is a park.Do you think that is too young a age?

Fuxake Seamus, from your address the "street" you are talking about is the M8!

I trust you tell him not to leave the hard shoulder during the rush hour and not to go in the fast lane even if it looks like there is nothing coming? :unsure:

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You are being harsh on this thread, and I find all of your posts a little distasteful and quite judgemental - it's not even like you are speaking from experience. How can you say "I would never do that" - how do you know how you will parent your own children? It's easy to look at other peoples mistakes and vow never to repeat them yourself, but then I bet these parents looked at another families mistakes and vowed never to be the ones to repeat those. At this moment in time, the only important thing in this situation is to find the little girl alive and well, not to cast blame on her parents for leaving her alone.

I agree with you - reading this thread actually made me roll my eyes at certain posters several times.

You cannot physically watch your children every second of every day - it's impossible. Fair enough, some parents might disagree with the way these parents left their children in their room alone whilst they went out to eat, but they were close by and were checking regularly. It's horrific, yes, but it's not the parents' fault. Just like Sarah Payne being abducted and murdered was horrific, but not her mothers fault for letting her out of her sight. Just like the murders of the Soham girls was horrific, but not the fault of their parents for letting them out of their sight. The fact that they were actually in a secure room shows that the parents took measures to ensure their children would be safe.

As for the question from Saints1884 about a fire - are we working on ifs and buts here? If parents thought like that, then their children would sit in a padded room (padded with fire resistant material, obviously) from the moment of birth until the moment of death. Bad things happen to people, carried out by bad people. You can't compensate for that.

Is this a joke that is going straight over my head?

Do you actually feel like you have to justify yourself to these posters? I really don't think you need to explain your decision to let your four year old play outside with his friends.

Great post! By posting I was hoping to find out how the posters formed their opinions.Although they seemed to have formed their opinions by preconceptions

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Fuxake Seamus, from your address the "street" you are talking about is the M8!

I trust you tell him not to leave the hard shoulder during the rush hour and not to go in the fast lane even if it looks like there is nothing coming? :unsure:

He was fine there were stabilisers on his bike :lol:

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Great post! By posting I was hoping to find out how the posters formed their opinions.Although they seemed to have formed their opinions by preconceptions

They have formed their opinions by having nothing better to do than jumping on a bandwagon.

It's a bloody disgrace, parents these days, they should be sterilised... and so on, and so forth.

:rolleyes:

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They have formed their opinions by having nothing better to do than jumping on a bandwagon.

It's a bloody disgrace, parents these days, they should be sterilised... and so on, and so forth.

:rolleyes:

Sam

You are also, I assume, talking from a position of ignorance - not being a mother yourself? :unsure:

I am a parent, both my children being grown up now. My wife and I never let the children out of our sight until they were of school age and even then strict boundaries were set and they were always in company.

In this case we are talking about leaving three kids alone in an apartment in a foreign country.

I feel desperately for the parents and even more for the wee girl but the bottom line - no debate - is that the parents made a grave error of judgement for which I pray the only punishment is charges being brought for child neglect rather the life sentence of guilt they will face is she isn't found alive and well.

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Sam

You are also, I assume, talking from a position of ignorance - not being a mother yourself? :unsure:

I am a parent, both my children being grown up now. My wife and I never let the children out of our sight until they were of school age and even then strict boundaries were set and they were always in company.

In this case we are talking about leaving three kids alone in an apartment in a foreign country.

I feel desperately for the parents and even more for the wee girl but the bottom line - no debate - is that the parents made a grave error of judgement for which I pray the only punishment is charges being brought for child neglect rather the life sentence of guilt they will face is she isn't found alive and well.

I'm not really judging anyone though, am I?

Different people parent differently, and that's my point. Certainly you must appreciate that. It was a grave error of judgement in your eyes, but perhaps many other people don't sympathise with that view. In any case, it's not the place of someone who doesn't even have any children to come onto a football forum and blast the parents for being "unfit to parent". Even if - "bottom line, no debate" - it was a grave error of judgement (perhaps one they had practised many times before?), what right does Steven have to say something like that?

My parents were much like yourself and kept very tight boundaries around both myself and my brother, but other members of my family were much more lenient, and I can't say either technique was wrong. Children are abducted from their homes when their families are at home - you just can't second guess the actions of evil people. Bottom line, for me, is that you can take all of the precautions you want to avoid bad things from happening, but where there is a will, there is a way.

Edited by SaintSam

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I'm not really judging anyone though, am I?

Different people parent differently, and that's my point. Certainly you must appreciate that. It was a grave error of judgement in your eyes, but perhaps many other people don't sympathise with that view. In any case, it's not the place of someone who doesn't even have any children to come onto a football forum and blast the parents for being "unfit to parent". Even if - "bottom line, no debate" - it was a grave error of judgement (perhaps one they had practised many times before?), what right does Steven have to say something like that?

My parents were much like yourself and kept very tight boundaries around both myself and my brother, but other members of my family were much more lenient, and I can't say either technique was wrong. Children are abducted from their homes when their families are at home - you just can't second guess the actions of evil people. Bottom line, for me, is that you can take all of the precautions you want to avoid bad things from happening, but where there is a will, there is a way.

Sam - I said no debate :rolleyes:;)

In this country it is a criminal offence to leave children of that age alone. Therefore if Steven knows the law then he has every right to post that.

I'm not attacking you but it does enrage me that anyone can even begin to defend that it might be OK to leave the child(ren) alone.

Put me in the parents position in this case and I would want to top myself (assuming the worst case scenario transpires).

I'm not saying they are bad people, just incredibly stupid. And that stupidity could have cost their three year old daughter her life. :(

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Sam - I said no debate :rolleyes:;)

In this country it is a criminal offence to leave children of that age alone. Therefore if Steven knows the law then he has every right to post that.

I'm not attacking you but it does enrage me that anyone can even begin to defend that it might be OK to leave the child(ren) alone.

Put me in the parents position in this case and I would want to top myself (assuming the worst case scenario transpires).

I'm not saying they are bad people, just incredibly stupid. And that stupidity could have cost their three year old daughter her life. :(

I'm not sure that I'm trying to defend their decision to leave their children alone, but I strongly disagree with this sense of morality that Steven is displaying on this thread. Plenty of people leave their children home alone, without bothering to check up on them. Plenty of people let their children play in the street until 11pm without bothering to check up on them. Whilst the fact that so many people do these things doesn't make it right, it does - in my opinion - make it harsh to judge these particular people so severely.

I have followed the story, and whilst having no real strong opinion on their choice to leave their children in the (locked) room alone whilst they ate out close by, I feel an overwhelming sense of sympathy for the situation they now find themselves in. I don't think it's very appropriate to be passing judgement on here and sticking the knife in like certain posters have done. Children are abducted in their own homes, whilst their parents are there with them. Children are sexually assaulted in their own home, whilst their parents are there with them.

It is incredibly difficult to avoid bad things happening, in my opinion.

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I'm not sure that I'm trying to defend their decision to leave their children alone, but I strongly disagree with this sense of morality that Steven is displaying on this thread. Plenty of people leave their children home alone, without bothering to check up on them. Plenty of people let their children play in the street until 11pm without bothering to check up on them. Whilst the fact that so many people do these things doesn't make it right, it does - in my opinion - make it harsh to judge these particular people so severely.

I have followed the story, and whilst having no real strong opinion on their choice to leave their children in the (locked) room alone whilst they ate out close by, I feel an overwhelming sense of sympathy for the situation they now find themselves in. I don't think it's very appropriate to be passing judgement on here and sticking the knife in like certain posters have done. Children are abducted in their own homes, whilst their parents are there with them. Children are sexually assaulted in their own home, whilst their parents are there with them.

It is incredibly difficult to avoid bad things happening, in my opinion.

Fair do's - I don't actually think our viewpoints are that far apart. :)

As I've stated, I do feel desparately for the parents but they will, I assume, never forgive themselves for their error in judgement if their daughter is found dead or worse(?) not at all.

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You are being harsh on this thread, and I find all of your posts a little distasteful and quite judgemental - it's not even like you are speaking from experience. How can you say "I would never do that" - how do you know how you will parent your own children? It's easy to look at other peoples mistakes and vow never to repeat them yourself, but then I bet these parents looked at another families mistakes and vowed never to be the ones to repeat those. At this moment in time, the only important thing in this situation is to find the little girl alive and well, not to cast blame on her parents for leaving her alone.

I agree with you - reading this thread actually made me roll my eyes at certain posters several times.

I'm not really judging anyone though, am I?

Different people parent differently, and that's my point. Certainly you must appreciate that. It was a grave error of judgement in your eyes, but perhaps many other people don't sympathise with that view. In any case, it's not the place of someone who doesn't even have any children to come onto a football forum and blast the parents for being "unfit to parent". Even if - "bottom line, no debate" - it was a grave error of judgement (perhaps one they had practised many times before?), what right does Steven have to say something like that?

My parents were much like yourself and kept very tight boundaries around both myself and my brother, but other members of my family were much more lenient, and I can't say either technique was wrong. Children are abducted from their homes when their families are at home - you just can't second guess the actions of evil people.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable to leave kids who are 3 years old alone?

I have never had kids of my own but I have been around kids all my life either with my brothers and sister who are all younger than me, my cousins or my ex girlfriends young child and I would and could never leave them alone for fear of what could happen as if anything did happen I would blame myself the rest of my life so maybe I have never been a parent I have had parental responsibilities and take them very seriously and by your posts you obviously have no idea what you are talking about as you simply do not leave a child that age alone nevermind in a foreign country.

For the record I have through family and ex's I have been around 12 children over the past 10 years so I can hardly be described as a novice when it comes to children and if a child of that age wasnt in the same room as me (even next door) I would be constantly worrying that something would happen to them neve-mind leaving them for any length of time and I cant believe any responsible parent would leave a child of that age alone for any length of time.

I believe I have more right to comment on this than you do but as usual you seem to think you know better than everybody else.

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The parents are both around 38-39 - with the kids being 4 and the twins are 2. These are people that will have led their whole lives being able to go out and do what they want when they want to with plenty of disposable income (both doctors).

I had my children when i was 22 and 24 - my wife and I never really got much of a chance to get into a habit of going out and enjoying ourselves before my wife got pregnant, going on holiday in the early years with two young kids was a nightmare, we spent 2 weeks in Portugal that were the worst couple of weeks of our lives, it was no holiday to have. Not once did we ever consider, we will leave them for an hour, it is not something that enters your head.

If you had a good number of years getting used to doing what you wanted though, is it something people could be tempted into doing, I see little point taking 3 under 5's on holiday myself, but these people obviously thought they can leave them while they go for a drink, it obviously wasnt the first time that its happened, no doubt someone was looking and seeing what they were doing.

Whatever happens, the parents are guilty of child neglect and should face charges, as harsh as it sounds, I suspect because of their stature, they will not. If someone from Easterhouse did the same they would be hung out to dry by the media. I feel desperately sorry for the parents, but they have to accept a large proportion of the blame for their actions.

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The parents are both around 38-39 - with the kids being 4 and the twins are 2. These are people that will have led their whole lives being able to go out and do what they want when they want to with plenty of disposable income (both doctors).

I had my children when i was 22 and 24 - my wife and I never really got much of a chance to get into a habit of going out and enjoying ourselves before my wife got pregnant, going on holiday in the early years with two young kids was a nightmare, we spent 2 weeks in Portugal that were the worst couple of weeks of our lives, it was no holiday to have. Not once did we ever consider, we will leave them for an hour, it is not something that enters your head.

If you had a good number of years getting used to doing what you wanted though, is it something people could be tempted into doing, I see little point taking 3 under 5's on holiday myself, but these people obviously thought they can leave them while they go for a drink, it obviously wasnt the first time that its happened, no doubt someone was looking and seeing what they were doing.

Whatever happens, the parents are guilty of child neglect and should face charges, as harsh as it sounds, I suspect because of their stature, they will not. If someone from Easterhouse did the same they would be hung out to dry by the media. I feel desperately sorry for the parents, but they have to accept a large proportion of the blame for their actions.

Spot on!

Over to you Sam to respond! :rolleyes:;)

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Whatever happens, the parents are guilty of child neglect and should face charges, as harsh as it sounds, I suspect because of their stature, they will not. If someone from Easterhouse did the same they would be hung out to dry by the media. I feel desperately sorry for the parents, but they have to accept a large proportion of the blame for their actions.

Agree with all of that and made a similar point at very beginning. I don't have kids but have been around friends kids a lot.

The fact that I don't have kids doesn't mean I'm not allowed an opinion.

They left three kids under four in a locked room while they sat enjoying themselves, checking every half hour - even if they could see the room I bet they were not sitting watching it all the time.

It's symptomatic of a lot people in this country who want kids as a right but don't want the responsibility of actually having to look after them as it might interfere with their lifestyle (and I am not referring onto anyone on here who all sound sensible and responsible- and who think about what their kids are able to do).

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The children were infants. They weren't ten year olds being left out to play. It is inconceivable that a responsible parent would leave their infant children alone in a different building from the one they were in.

edit: added word infant into second sentence

Edited by Swampy

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I believe I have more right to comment on this than you do but as usual you seem to think you know better than everybody else.

I'm not even going to debate this with you, if you can't refrain from behaving like a moron and slagging me off.

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