Tourism levy

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

It's a reasonable description of how the private sector makes money from tourism, but the same could be said for the entire countries and cities that already have tourist taxes/levies to help with the day to day costs and future investment.

The private sector makes money from tourism and then the city council makes money from the rates, settlement of employees and other economic activity provided by those businesses. 

There is not one credible cost-benefit analysis that would place tourism to the city of Edinburgh - or anywhere else in Scotland - as a net drain in resources. Not even close - it is the goose laying a golden egg. 

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If it's good enough for the Greeks, Italians and Spaniards, I really can't see what you are complaining about.

Because nothing says joined-up economic thinking and good government like *checks notes* Greece and Italy.

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Unless you kick up Hell every time you visit any country or city where the charges exist, of course so if you do that, fair play and carry on.

Just because other countries' governments resort to moronic rent-seeking does not justify it being aped in Scotland. 

[Suspect Device]

It seems to be pretty widespread.

Tourist taxes: All of the countries you will have to pay to enter in 2023 | Euronews

It's not stopped me booking up for Greece this year but I was surprised the first time I had to pay it. Directly to the hotel when we were checking in.

I don't see it being much of a disincentive to tourists given that a lot of places seem to be implementing it. The exchange rate is far more important to how attractive a place is to visit, not a small tourist tax.

[Hard Graft]

Just back from USA - in Las Vegas tax was $51 per night.

[ScotiaNostra]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

It seems to be pretty widespread.

Tourist taxes: All of the countries you will have to pay to enter in 2023 | Euronews

It's not stopped me booking up for Greece this year but I was surprised the first time I had to pay it. Directly to the hotel when we were checking in.

I don't see it being much of a disincentive to tourists given that a lot of places seem to be implementing it. The exchange rate is far more important to how attractive a place is to visit, not a small tourist tax.

must be the only tax Greece collects

[Salt n Vinegar]

16 hours ago, virginton said:

The private sector makes money from tourism and then the city council makes money from the rates, settlement of employees and other economic activity provided by those businesses. 

There is not one credible cost-benefit analysis that would place tourism to the city of Edinburgh - or anywhere else in Scotland - as a net drain in resources. Not even close - it is the goose laying a golden egg. 

Because nothing says joined-up economic thinking and good government like *checks notes* Greece and Italy.

Just because other countries' governments resort to moronic rent-seeking does not justify it being aped in Scotland. 

Yes, I get what you are saying but none of it means that Councils wouldn't welcome additional funds to offset expenditure that would otherwise be met from various taxes on local residents and businesses. Any extra pound paid by a tourist is a pound that doesn't have to be paid by locals. Bring it on as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure that the first places to introduce a levy will be watched like hawks by opponents who will gladly jump on any tourism reductions. Given the experiences referred to by others in this thread I reckon we'll be ok. 

 

[vikingTON]

22 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Yes, I get what you are saying but none of it means that Councils wouldn't welcome additional funds to offset expenditure that would otherwise be met from various taxes on local residents and businesses.

Many local businesses are only operating in part from tourist revenue. Many locals are either directly or indirectly employed thanks to tourist revenue.

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Any extra pound paid by a tourist is a pound that doesn't have to be paid by locals. 

What a risible view of the rest of the world - should we slap on higher and higher entry visa charges to confirm our status as a banana republic while we're at it?

A visitor from Bangalore is really not responsible for the UK's political failure to revalue housing or tax land value for fully 30 years. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

Many local businesses are only operating in part from tourist revenue. Many locals are either directly or indirectly employed thanks to tourist revenue.

What a risible view of the rest of the world - should we slap on higher and higher entry visa charges to confirm our status as a banana republic while we're at it?

A visitor from Bangalore is really not responsible for the UK's political failure to revalue housing or tax land value for fully 30 years. 

I'll try to get over your obvious disagreement with my view.

I'll be carefully watching for indications of countries/cities abolishing such fees in the coming years.  I understand that Manchester has introduced one so evidence should come out relatively soon.

[Soapy FFC]

2 hours ago, Hard Graft said:

Just back from USA - in Las Vegas tax was $51 per night.

Was that a real State/CIty imposed tax, or the self imposed resort fee that Las Vegas hotels invented to keep the headline hotel cost low, whilst charging you large mandatory add on fees when you check out?

[invergowrie arab]

A better way of raising money for local authorities would be to leave hotels (the ones that employee people) alone and tax Airbnb second (and third and fourth) home owners 500% council tax.

 

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

54 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

A better way of raising money for local authorities would be to leave hotels (the ones that employee people) alone and tax Airbnb second (and third and fourth) home owners 500% council tax.

 

Just about every Airbnb currently qualifies for 100% Non Domestic Rates small business relief. That should be scrapped immediately. The assessors are currently clamping down on Airbnbs that aren't advertised or let out for an appropriate amount of days each year, so hopefully the prospect of a 200% Council Tax charge will force some landlords into selling up or at least renting out long term locally.

[SweeperDee]

With the absolute state of the highlands Munroe trails and the infrastructure supporting the actual movement of tourists around the highlands, I’d fully support a levy. Use that money to invest in cleaning up our highlands. Place is riddled with litter and other shite disrupting the wildlife and such. 

[Hard Graft]

3 hours ago, Soapy FFC said:

Was that a real State/CIty imposed tax, or the self imposed resort fee that Las Vegas hotels invented to keep the headline hotel cost low, whilst charging you large mandatory add on fees when you check out?

It is indeed the self imposed resort fee and you do pay it as you check out.  There is some dubiety over it's legality.  Sneakily though it is charged through your credit card which you use at check in.

[invergowrie arab]

2 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Just about every Airbnb currently qualifies for 100% Non Domestic Rates small business relief. That should be scrapped immediately. The assessors are currently clamping down on Airbnbs that aren't advertised or let out for an appropriate amount of days each year, so hopefully the prospect of a 200% Council Tax charge will force some landlords into selling up or at least renting out long term locally.

An average Airbnb on Skye with an 80% LTV mortgage probably pays its monthly mortgage with 3 nights turnover and monthly council tax in 1 so it will take more than 200% CT to rid us of these parasites.

That's before you get into people from SE England (or anywhere else in UK with inherited wealth) buying them cash.

 

[Soapy FFC]

1 hour ago, Hard Graft said:

It is indeed the self imposed resort fee and you do pay it as you check out.  There is some dubiety over it's legality.  Sneakily though it is charged through your credit card which you use at check in.

And keep in mind you pay the official hotel tax of 12% or 13% on top of that. £2 a night seems quite cheap. 

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

An average Airbnb on Skye with an 80% LTV mortgage probably pays its monthly mortgage with 3 nights turnover and monthly council tax in 1 so it will take more than 200% CT to rid us of these parasites.

That's before you get into people from SE England (or anywhere else in UK with inherited wealth) buying them cash.

 

If only there was some sort of guillotine-shaped solution to these problems. 

[Leith Green]

21 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Just about every Airbnb currently qualifies for 100% Non Domestic Rates small business relief. That should be scrapped immediately. The assessors are currently clamping down on Airbnbs that aren't advertised or let out for an appropriate amount of days each year, so hopefully the prospect of a 200% Council Tax charge will force some landlords into selling up or at least renting out long term locally.

Its more nuanced than that.

1 - Holiday Lets which are licensed and run as businesses can claim small business relief if their calculated rateable value is <£12000 (same as any other business which qualifies). That is on the +side of the financial equation for them.

However, if they run as a business then there are various disadvantages to running a non-development property company - e.g. BTL mortages require a larger deposit and cost more, also they can not claim the mortgage payment interest against tax (which is unusual v other businesses) - these can be pretty major -ves depending on how much the interest payment is and how leveraged they are on the loans.

People who run these as businesses have some pretty big expenses - if they are doing it correctly - and dont make the fortunes that everyone thinks. 

2 - Those who run holiday lets unlicensed and pretend they are not running a business have to pay council tax as to do otherwise would open them up to claims of running a business, they would need licensed and to comply with local authority regulations etc.

 

Based on my experience in Edinburgh (I run a business working in property maintenance, inc rentals) the problem with the rampant growth in the sector is not with those run as a business, but rather the opportunists who dive in, dont have a BTL mortgage, dont have proper insurance, dont pay the correct tax (if at all), dont have or want a licence, dont want to put in things like CO and Smoke alarms etc.

[tamthebam]

VT doesn't live in Edinburgh

I do.

Tax the annoying chunts until the pips squeak.

[Salt n Vinegar]

5 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

VT doesn't live in Edinburgh

I do.

Tax the annoying chunts until the pips squeak.

The leader of the City of Edinburgh Council, hardly a political ally of the Scottish Government, seems quite taken with the proposed ability to introduce a tourism levy.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13735/long-awaited-legislation-for-a-visitor-levy

I'd imagine that the Tories on the Council will start screaming from the rooftops if there are adverse effects.

Interesting quote from the article... businesses aren't apparently rioting in the streets... Not exactly recent, but interesting nonetheless... "The council has produced a substantial body of work to back its case for why a levy is the right move for Edinburgh, including a detailed consultation in 2018 which saw 85% of 2,500 respondents expressing strong support for its introduction. This figure included a majority of Edinburgh-based businesses and accommodation providers."

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

VT doesn't live in Edinburgh

I do.

Tax the annoying chunts until the pips squeak.

I'm all for a 100% income tax surcharge on the No-voting w****r inhabitants of Scotland's fake capital city tbh.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

9 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The leader of the City of Edinburgh Council, hardly a political ally of the Scottish Government, seems quite taken with the proposed ability to introduce a tourism levy.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13735/long-awaited-legislation-for-a-visitor-levy

I'd imagine that the Tories on the Council will start screaming from the rooftops if there are adverse effects.

Interesting quote from the article... businesses aren't apparently rioting in the streets... Not exactly recent, but interesting nonetheless... "The council has produced a substantial body of work to back its case for why a levy is the right move for Edinburgh, including a detailed consultation in 2018 which saw 85% of 2,500 respondents expressing strong support for its introduction. This figure included a majority of Edinburgh-based businesses and accommodation providers."

The idea of a politician getting excited at free money when they are failing to provide decent services doesnt exactly come across as ‘gotcha’. 
What they should be doing is making the air bnb landlords pay 3x standard rate council tax. 
Genuinely could see the merit of this tax if we were offering a premium service, all its going to do is chase people over to Ireland who would instead come here. Short sighted stuff potentially pricing working class tourists from round the world from coming here. The only reason the locals are in favour of it is because they think it’ll reduce their council tax.