Hearts v Hibs - The Battle for 4th

[kingjoey]

There's an awful lot of re-writing of history by Hearts fans on here.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

We need to win as the stick handed out if we lose will be over the top. I have a Hibby pal to meet on Sunday.  I tested the waters to see how confident he was feeling by offering to meet him after the game. He never answered. He is feeling confident. They don't want to admit it.

Win or lose, I don't know if I want Naismith to stay on. I am not sure if he is ready for the job but I like the guy, he is a goodcunt. I remember reading stuff that he was doing outside of football. He is sound and it looks like he likes his teams to play anti-Neilson football.

I must say I do like Lee Johnson as well, I don't know why he gets so much abuse from the Hibs fans but I don't watch their games. I like his interviews though.

[Squonk]

6 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

On kickback it’s Robbie’s fault for missing out on 3rd place.  

Can't see the flaw in that argument whatsoever. That's about the most sensible conclusion ever posted on Kickback.

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

There's an awful lot of re-writing of history by Hearts fans on here.

Very pleasing to watch 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

7 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

On kickback it’s Robbie’s fault for missing out on 3rd place.  

Unlike Kickback to be right on anything, but stopped clocks and all that

[Tony Wonder]

7 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

On kickback it’s Robbie’s fault for missing out on 3rd place.  

Eh, of course it is.

[Tony Wonder]

8 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

 

Well we all know Hearts base their executive decisions on results against Hibs.


And they call us the "wee team".

If it was based solely on this game then that'd be a fair point, but it's not.

His games have all been relatively important and we've done pretty well on the whole, certainly improved. The Derby is important in its own right, but if he lifts the team after Wednesday and delivers a win his spell looks decent. It'd be wins against both our closest rivals, a decent performance against Celtic and point at Ibrox as well as hammering County.

If he loses it ends on a downer and a fresh start would likely be better for everyone. It's not just because it's Hibs, if you flipped this fixture with Aberdeen it'd be the same feeling.

Momentum and fans enjoying games are important for interim managers when being assessed.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Tony Wonder

[Mr. X]

9 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Then why isn't he already gone? 

He can be excused for his first game in charge, inheriting a group of players completely devoid of confidence after an atrocious run of results. 

[VincentGuerin]

Good to see the tramps are raging before a ball is even kicked here.

I love their impotent rage against all the hurt we've caused them over the years. Must be shite being them.

[lennyzer0]

11 hours ago, Mr. X said:

Make or break for Naismith on Saturday.

Win and he will have the majority of Hearts fans keen on him getting the managers job. Lose and no Hearts fan will be wanting him to stay in post.

Dunno about no Hearts fan. I want him appointed regardless, and I'm not alone in that - I think he's done an excellent job with a squad short of confidence, and given the probable alternatives and this Board's idea of a good managerial appointment, he's the best we're likely to attract. I've enjoyed watching us play for most of the games since Hibs, which is more than I can say for most 6 game spells under Levein and Neilson.

[VincentGuerin]

I think we're at the point now where Naismith is very unlikely not to get the job. And I don't think one game should ever make a difference either way. Celtic did that in 2019. Didn't work out well.

Naismith has shown he's a competent coach, and if we are in Europe next season, it will be a relatively quick process in terms of the qualifiers coming round. So, I can see a rationale for keeping him in post.

I think if we do keep him, it will be quite instructive on where Scottish football is. Aberdeen looked around and decided the best they could get was promoting Robson. We may well decide the best we can do is promoting Naismith. These jobs don't seem to be the relatively good draw they once were. It's the shifting of fitba, but we're becoming even less of a relevance as a league than we were.

Would anyone be stunned if David Gray was Hibs manager next season?

Motherwell's last two coaches have been internal promotions. St Johnstone have an internally promoted coach.

Not saying these guys won't turn out to be good coaches and do well. Maybe they will. But I think it shows where we all are just now.

It's not entirely new, but I can see an acceleration of the process of our league (like others) becoming essentially development leagues. Like the A-League in Australia. Promote coaches internally (the good ones moving on sharpish), bring in loanees and people not quite making it elsewhere, have a quick sell-on approach. This seems to be where we are.

Edited May 26, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Dons_1988]

I don’t think it’s true that the appointments are down to our relevance as a league. 

More and more clubs are moving away from the all powerful big name manager. The football operation is a more collective effort. That means getting in younger guys who’ve been around the club for a long time but less management experience makes more sense.

[Zing.]

It would be absolutely hilarious if we were to win this. Given our away record and how good Hearts are at home I highly doubt it happens.

Hopefully injuries to Newell and Nisbet aren’t serious and they can start. Guessing CJ is fucked.

[lennyzer0]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I don’t think it’s true that the appointments are down to our relevance as a league. 

More and more clubs are moving away from the all powerful big name manager. The football operation is a more collective effort. That means getting in younger guys who’ve been around the club for a long time but less management experience makes more sense.

Yeah, that's how I see it, and I'm broadly in favour of that approach. Certinaly better than the usual merygo-round of familiar faces who have already failed elsewhere.

Plus, I'm not sure that the Hearts or Aberdeen job was ever that massive an international draw for experienced continental managers.

[newcastle broon]

2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Naismith has shown he's a competent coach, and if we are in Europe next season, it will be a relatively quick process in terms of the qualifiers coming round. So, I can see a rationale for keeping him in post.

He's that competent that he guided the B team to 13th place in a 19 team Lowland League. 

Do these stats not count? 

[VincentGuerin]

8 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

He's that competent that he guided the B team to 13th place in a 19 team Lowland League. 

Do these stats not count? 

It's a fairly obvious point that the purpose of the B-Team is not to win the Lowland League. It's to develop players for the first team. I don't think those results are in any way meaningful in terms of whether he'll be good with the first team, as would be the case if they'd skooshed the Lowland League.

I never watch them, so have no idea about their performances.

But I think his showings with the first team in the Premiership are more relevant, and his first match aside, when he had little prep time with the players, the performances have all been good and he's shown he can put an organised and positive side on the park.

I'm not saying he's amazing. But he's clearly proved he's competent as a coach.

Edited May 26, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Tony Wonder]

24 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

He's that competent that he guided the B team to 13th place in a 19 team Lowland League. 

Do these stats not count? 

The B team were almost exclusively 17 and 18 year olds. They found it tough initially and then steadily improved as the season went on as they learnt how to play mens football and several of them have been involved in matchday squads for the first team or are playing for Scotland at various age groups. The be all and end all for the B team isn't winning every week, but that side of it improved and the players were clearly getting to grips with it under his guidance, so I don't think there's anything whatsoever to suggest he's incompetent when he's made them better.

[Stylish Kid]

13 hours ago, Empty It said:

Pretty much coincided with Gordon being injured, I actually think we were pretty shite for 90% of the season but he saved alot of points for us, Clark as well to a degree.

Nah we played pretty well for a bit - Clark actually had more clean sheets. I think it's more other issues related to the way we were playing 

[Stylish Kid]

Anyways, Lee Johnson has suggested that Hearts mindset will potentially be to get a draw and Hibs is easier as it's for a win.

 

Numerous people have said how Hibs and Hearts approach the Derby which is fundamentally different - It's drilled in at Hearts, even under Robbie, that a win in the Derby is a minimum for Hearts. At home, with something to play for, I fully expect a win 

[VincentGuerin]

5 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said:

Anyways, Lee Johnson has suggested that Hearts mindset will potentially be to get a draw and Hibs is easier as it's for a win.

 

Numerous people have said how Hibs and Hearts approach the Derby which is fundamentally different - It's drilled in at Hearts, even under Robbie, that a win in the Derby is a minimum for Hearts. At home, with something to play for, I fully expect a win 

He should know better, since our derby record is so good that even that c**t coasted to victory in one with us.