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Queen's Parks Next Permanent Manager


Who will be QP's next permanent manager?  

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6 hours ago, Charliechurch said:

Whoever takes the QP poisoned chalice will have to work with that pseudo science spouting Dutch 'guru' Haughey has installed as technical director. 

Coyle jumped at the first chance rather than work on with Beuker and the word will have got around pretty quickly about him.

QP is obviously a vanity project for his Lordship, but Scottish Football is pretty basic in these sense that, if you want to focus on youth development and get into the top flight, you need to do what McDonald did with Hamilton Accies.

That means sticking with a manager, not chopping and changing evertime the technical 'guru' in the back office gets the hump. Putting Beuker in charge so that he can crash and burn as a manager may the best outcome. If he's got anything about him, as opposed to 'motivational speeches' and 'expert presentations', he'll want to become a manager. The technical director model has never worked well in Scottish football.

He took the opportunity to get in the dugout when we had a long spell between Laurie Ellis at the end of 2021 and Coyle arriving late April 22. Billed as “helping out”, having looked endlessly online for any evidence of him actually coaching/managing, I quickly realised he had seized an opportunity to get the feel for being a manager without any real responsibility for it. Plus, and probably more so, it gave him the opportunity to get really close to how the game was played in Scotland. Quite different, from his own experiences I’d imagine.

His philosophy is a breath of fresh air but given the rest of the place has been like a horse’s byre all season it’s maybe not transferable to Scotland. Aside of my own club, I do hope it signals a new direction for the rest of Scottish football, certainly at the upper level. Something is needed to break the grip of the Old Firm, or at least release it every now and again.

Edited by Bring Your Own Socks
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15 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

His philosophy is a breath of fresh air but given the rest of the place has been like a horse’s byre all season it’s maybe not transferable to Scotland. Aside of my own club, I do hope it signals a new direction for the rest of Scottish football, certainly at the upper level. Something is needed to break the grip of the Old Firm, or at least release it every now and again.

😂

Hes not some revolutionary, im afraid. The "Dutch model" was punted around Scottish clubs about 10 years ago, and the "performance school" took those ideas on. Do you think its coincidence Scotland now has a lot of smaller technical players coming through?

A large portion of top flight clubs have a heavy focus on youth development too, the issue is EPL clubs are tapping up 14yo within Britain these days since brexit so most with real quality have their heads turned and leave by 18.

Not a clue what special sauce Queens Park are brewing up thats so different to what everyone else has done for a decade.

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36 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

😂

Hes not some revolutionary, im afraid. The "Dutch model" was punted around Scottish clubs about 10 years ago, and the "performance school" took those ideas on. Do you think its coincidence Scotland now has a lot of smaller technical players coming through?

A large portion of top flight clubs have a heavy focus on youth development too, the issue is EPL clubs are tapping up 14yo within Britain these days since brexit so most with real quality have their heads turned and leave by 18.

Not a clue what special sauce Queens Park are brewing up thats so different to what everyone else has done for a decade.

If you're genuinely curious, there's an excellent podcast where he talks about his methods and how he was able to have so much success with them at AZ. Even by the traditional Dutch model you're referring to they did (and I'd imagine probably still do) things quite differently:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/marijn-beuker-thinking-differently-with-az-alkmaar

Edited by Zanetti
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6 minutes ago, One T said:

If it's a long term appointment somebody with Lowland League experience would seem to fit the bill.

I don't think there's any point in us recruiting a manager for our B team until that vote goes through.

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40 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

If you're genuinely curious, there's an excellent podcast where he talks about his methods and how he was able to have so much success with them at AZ. Even by the traditional Dutch model you're referring to they did (and I'd imagine probably still do) things quite differently:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/marijn-beuker-thinking-differently-with-az-alkmaar

Hes an absolute waffle, and id be wary of assuming AZs "success" was down to him and he wasnt simply a cog in a well drilled machine someone else built.

If the rest of the machine isnt there youll just have a cog spinning against nothing aimlessly.

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44 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hes an absolute waffle, and id be wary of assuming AZs "success" was down to him and he wasnt simply a cog in a well drilled machine someone else built.

If the rest of the machine isnt there youll just have a cog spinning against nothing aimlessly.

Fair enough I suppose, if you're not convinced by him we might as well not bother. 

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1 hour ago, One T said:

If it's a long term appointment somebody with Lowland League experience would seem to fit the bill.

I think there is some hesitancy among possible managers given having to work under Nelms.

Edited by SandyCromarty
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54 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

Fair enough I suppose, if you're not convinced by him we might as well not bother. 

Youre more than right to give him a chance, just dont act like hes some genius teaching cavemen how to make fire because he talks the talk.

The idea hes going to revolutionise the Scottish game and overthrow the Old Firm is just mental stuff. 

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2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Youre more than right to give him a chance, just dont act like hes some genius teaching cavemen how to make fire because he talks the talk.

The idea hes going to revolutionise the Scottish game and overthrow the Old Firm is just mental stuff. 

If you read (instead of interpreting) my post I said “something” not “this is it”. Your 10 year plan you mentioned actually started in 1974 after the World Cup and Johann Cruyff and chums dazzled everyone. Way back then Scotland was to mimic the Dutch side according to Ernie Walker. 

Whatever the 10 year plan is/was it’s not doing the business. AZ Alkmaar have 47% of their first team minutes attributed to youngsters who came from their programme, which starts with 10 year olds. A smallish regional club, not unlike yours, they reached the semi-finals of the European Conference Cup this season and are about to qualify for Europe this weekend for next season. Fourth top in one of the best leagues in the world. Most importantly though, they’ve continually been around the top of the Dutch League for a couple of decades now.

If you want to denounce Beuker as a snake oil salesman, put up the same stats for any or all of the Premiership teams. I’d guess the best of them would hardly be out of single digits. Some might even be zero. Or as a warm-up, just tell us the St Johnstone percentage of first team players who regularly start and came up through your academy system. 

Scottish football is dire, as we’ll find out shortly when, yet again, the clubs outside the OF who are in Europe are out of Europe before the schools go back. You’ll remind us of Saints charge to the qualifying rounds a few years ago? Sky’s deal for Scottish football (all 4 leagues although it’ll only be one) next season is 42 game and for the EFL (not the EPL) it’s 160 games. We’re a laughing stock in global terms and it’s that dearth of money that allows the OF to keep dominating everyone else. Anything that might improve the game is to be considered. Not that QP are doing it for Scotland, but if it works - and we know it’s an if - other clubs would certainly follow. 

Edited by Bring Your Own Socks
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1 minute ago, Virtual Insanity said:

Some of the posts in this thread should be read in the voice of any one of the "pundits" on Open All Mics.

Allan Preston would spontaneously combust at any reference to anyone he has ever had any contact with in the Scottish game not being the messiah.

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3 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Or as a warm-up, just tell us the St Johnstone percentage of first team players who regularly start and came up through your academy system. 

Todays squad has 5. Sinclair, Ballantyne, May, Wills, and Kane all came through our academy. The first 3 have started almost every match under our new manager, while Kanes been a regular for years before missing 18 months with an injury. 

2 others, Gordon and Wotherspoon, are from Perth with Gordon joining as a teenager from Hearts youth system. Both had played for our youth sides previously before moving on at school age. Both are regulars

We had 5 in the double winning side. Zander Clark, Jason Kerr, Ali McCann, Chris Kane and Stevie May (plus Gordon and Wotherspoon). All but Kane and May moved on now, with us recouping £2m+ for them. Thats after previously getting £1m+ for May.

Again, im not saying yer mans idea wont work, just the fan claiming its going to create a revolution is miles off. Brexit has EPL sides tapping up 14yos in Scotland now, youll rarely see your best prospects actually play for you.

As for our European run, last time we were in it we drew with Galatasaray, again with 5 youth products in the team.

How many Queens Park youngsters are playing for them?

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21 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Todays squad has 5. Sinclair, Ballantyne, May, Wills, and Kane all came through our academy. The first 3 have started almost every match under our new manager, while Kanes been a regular for years before missing 18 months with an injury. 

2 others, Gordon and Wotherspoon, are from Perth with Gordon joining as a teenager from Hearts youth system. Both had played for our youth sides previously before moving on at school age. Both are regulars

We had 5 in the double winning side. Zander Clark, Jason Kerr, Ali McCann, Chris Kane and Stevie May (plus Gordon and Wotherspoon). All but Kane and May moved on now, with us recouping £2m+ for them. Thats after previously getting £1m+ for May.

Again, im not saying yer mans idea wont work, just the fan claiming its going to create a revolution is miles off. Brexit has EPL sides tapping up 14yos in Scotland now, youll rarely see your best prospects actually play for you.

As for our European run, last time we were in it we drew with Galatasaray, again with 5 youth products in the team.

How many Queens Park youngsters are playing for them?

Turkey’s beneath us. Rome, Madrid, Mount Florida. That’s it for now!

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17 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

How many Queens Park youngsters are playing for them?

Quite a lot. When looked at over the past five years (which might not be exactly what you're asking but it's a good reflection of the overall picture), we're 5th in the world for total number of players under the age of 20 to play for our first team, and 37th when you calculate it as a percentage of total minutes played.

Source, if you're curious:

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2022/wp417/en/

 

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3 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

Quite a lot. When looked at over the past five years (which might not be exactly what you're asking but it's a good reflection of the overall picture), we're 5th in the world for total number of players under the age of 20 to play for our first team, and 37th when you calculate it as a percentage of total minutes played.

Source, if you're curious:

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2022/wp417/en/

 

Aye i know about that site.

I mean just since you turned professional. 

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Aye i know about that site.

I mean just since you turned professional. 

Not sure how it'd look if you took it over the past 3 years instead of 5. Our squad had the youngest average age in the Championship this season though, at 23.7.

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1 hour ago, Zanetti said:

Our squad had the youngest average age in the Championship this season though, at 23.7.

Which is good.

Again, my point isnt that Queens Park arent doing the right thing or doing it well.

My point was the fan claiming it was going to revolutionise Scottish football and break the Old Firm, based on something achieved at AZ (who already had league titles before Beuker even arrived).

AZ have a lot of advantages at youth level that Scottish clubs just simply dont, no matter how much money you pump into it. English clubs are all over it up here now due to Brexit so youll see more and more U16s moving on.

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5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Which is good.

Again, my point isnt that Queens Park arent doing the right thing or doing it well.

My point was the fan claiming it was going to revolutionise Scottish football and break the Old Firm, based on something achieved at AZ (who already had league titles before Beuker even arrived).

AZ have a lot of advantages at youth level that Scottish clubs just simply dont, no matter how much money you pump into it. English clubs are all over it up here now due to Brexit so youll see more and more U16s moving on.

I think we agree with each other then. Scottish football has bigger issues than youth development when it comes to the dominance of Celtic and Rangers.

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