The Passive Nature of the Modern Scottish Football Fan

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

I've written to Hearts twice about VAR and my brother and several of my mates have too. Received nothing meaningful by way of response between us.

I've also written to Hearts about the B-Team issue more than once. I think I have my own bin at Tynecastle.

I challenged Aberdeen last summer on VAR and was told ‘no other club consulted and we’re being assured it’ll be “light touch”’. 

A fucking laughable response which I told them then and am telling them again now whilst they’re trying to get me to renew DNA. 

[realmadrid]

15 hours ago, HibsFan said:

• St Johnstone's £30 cup tickets and whoring out three sides of their stadium despite fans' protests

St Johnstone have listened on this, Dundee United asked for the Ormond stand this Saturday and were knocked back, not to say what was done in January was a good idea but the no show of so many fans proved a point to the board

[realmadrid]

15 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I think to get something like that off the ground you realistically need something to aim for:

Expanded top flight, definitive no to B teams, fairer financial distribution of funds throughout the SPFL? It also needs to be something fans of most clubs can agree on and unite behind. 

You wont get everyone to agree to most of that.

I certainly dont want an expanded top flight, 12 works fine and if you expand it the drop to the second level would be catastrophic. 

[PauloPerth]

I’m not sure why or how this became a debate about younger or older fans doing more or less.

I don’t think the argument is that the younger generation don’t do enough, it’s that football fans of all age groups don’t.

Changes come thick and fast in our game these days, more so than at any time previously, and it’s so much easier to slip in nonsense like the conference league.  It’s on the back of a six week winter break for a World Cup nobody wanted, on the back of var, on the back of 5 subs etc etc 

[10menwent2mow]

I'm becoming largely apathetic to it all. I'm the same as @VincentGuerin, pushing 40 and although I've not been an ST holder since primary school, I'd say I have been for about half that time and although my away attendance has dwindled in recent times, still try to get to 3 or 4 away days a season. 

Fans knew VAR would be bullshit, and no-one listened. Fans know this conference league will be bullshit, and no-one is listening. Fans know that paying £25+ for games is bullshit and no-one listens. 

The young generation do seem to be keen. Things like the Red Shed at Pittodrie, the Well Bois, the St Johnstone lot, are at least trying to create a bit of atmosphere but I don't think they are trying to affect change, it's more a case of belonging to something as a collective. 

The Dons probably qualifying for Europe and potentially having group stage football will probably keep me interested for a bit longer but with the cost of an away day probably well over £100 in Scotland now, you do start to wonder what the point is.  

[coprolite]

Football is a religion

Religion is the opium of the masses

Passivity should not be surprising

Fucking junkies

[AndyM]

3 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Having a bad day?

I think it's really simple. The only people who can do anything are the target audience.

Nobody has ever given a f**k what I think of the Champions League or the EPL.

I think the people on the hook for the apathy allegation (I include myself above) are people who routinely show up for Premiership matches, never put pressure on their clubs, subscribe to Sky, attend televised matches and register no protest when doing so.

It's not an age thing, it's an opportunity thing. It's why I think so much of the burden falls on the Old Firm support. They have a platform the rest of us don't have.

I think an Scottish football fan who subscribes to Sky Sports should be counted among the enemy, but that's just me.

I cannot disagree. Bit of a rant from me but I'm so scunnered with how the SPFL behaves right now.

There are a huge number of fans who can be categorised as happy clappers. These vegetables never challenge their own club and basically go along with everything no matter how bad the decision being made is. They need to grow a backbone.

VAR is rubbish, it simply is not working correctly at games. My own club's two recent examples of it with the Jeggo sending off in Perth and Marshall being charged into his own net in Dingwall and the "goal" not being chalked off would get the blood boiling of any football fan if it happened to their club. As long as VAR doesn't detrimentally affect one of the big 2 then it will never be subject to scrutiny.

I don't subscribe to Sky Sports but the TV deal is rotten. Exhibit A - no Edinburgh Derby shown in the final round of games when both clubs are going for European spots.  Be in no doubt the SPFL is an afterthought.

The only reason I still go is to see my mates who I've met up with for years. It certainly isn't the rubbish served up on the pitch and given family commitments now I' won't be renewing the ST.

 

[Kapowzer]

8 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The first point above is a good one and illustrates the myopia that exists.  I remember a radio discussion on it and every pundit present saw it as a good thing because it would allow managers to change things during games.  Not one recognised it as something that would widen the gap at the top end further.  It's a failure of thought and awareness.

I'm not sure that the second part above makes the point you think it does.  Not admitting the Rangers rebirth (there was no demotion) to the top flight, was an objectively good decision for a club like Motherwell.  It could only be seen as negative in the stark terms of absolute income, divorced from context.  Obviously, at the time of the show of hands, this couldn't be known, but a Rangersless top division allowed Motherwell a second placed finish and gave them enhanced opportunities in Cups, which some peers exploited better than they did.  What you identify as objectivity in that example, is nothing of the sort.

The point I made which was lost on you (I even started the paragraph with "In defence of the decision makers ....") is that often fans get polarised from finding out stuff by word of mouth and emotive stuff of social media. Throw in a healthy dose of hyperbole and keyboard warrior gallusness you can find that initial view can be tempered when the ultimate decision makers spell things out from behind the scenes.

There was no form of equivalence drawn between the 5 subs thing and Rangers demotion, I'm unsure why you drew that inference other than being beside each other in the post.

[Willie adie]

I've been utterly disgusted with the way our game has gone, the greed that has been allowed to prosper, the self interest that everyone admits is rife,  yet not one person club or organisation is willing to do anything about it.

I am sickened by my own club, we had a chance to change the voting structure, we had the opportunity to make decisions slightly more democratic,  and we showed how cowardly we are, by refusing to do so .

We had a representative on the SPFL board , one who was on the board that appointed Donkeycaster, and that cretin never spoke a word throughout his time , not a peep, never asked the Aberdeen fans Thier opinions on matters.

It's the sheer arrogance of the clubs and authorities, 

How dare  us the paying fans have an opinion.

How dare us the paying fans be consulted on the running of the game

This is OUR game , not the clubs they are merely the custodians, 

Yet we are treated with utter disdain. A

 

And the most painfully sad and disappointing thing about it is we fucking let them

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, Willie adie said:

I am sickened by my own club, we had a chance to change the voting structure, we had the opportunity to make decisions slightly more democratic,  and we showed how cowardly we are, by refusing to do so .

That's the worst moment for me. A one-off chance to end Celtgers' veto, and one of the other clubs got a sniff of power and decided they could take over as Scottish football's new kingmakers.

Hasn't that worked out well.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

There was no form of equivalence drawn between the 5 subs thing and Rangers demotion, I'm unsure why you drew that inference other than being beside each other in the post.

Eh?

I wasn't attempting to connect the two at all - read my post again.

I was just addressing each of the two parts I quoted, in turn.  They weren't actually beside each other.  They were separated by a bit I didn't address.

[Drooper]

Good thread.

In poll 2, I voted for the 3rd option, purely on the basis that we could make an impact in one fundamental way - stop shelling out for a shite product. 

You wouldn't keep eating in a restaurant if the food was consistently pish, or buy clothes from the same brand that are always burst at the seams, yet we continue to fork out increasingly silly sums to follow out fitba teams.  Its pretty much a unique scenario, and one I've often pondered.

The only way to bring about genuine change is to say we have had enough and chuck it until the clubs are forced to actually listen and act. As someone has already said, the fact that Doncaster is still in a job says it all really.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

I'm just bored of this "the younger generation need to sort this" attitude from folk who allowed the dam to burst and f**k the game for a generation, who then all just sit back and exclaim theyre too old to do anything now.

Mate, I apologise if my post came across that way.  It was not my intention.

Mind you, I think it's required a bit of a wilful interpretation to take you in that direction.

[Monkey Tennis]

9 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

 

You kind of forget with P&B and twitter that, probably the vast majority, of football fans in Scotland and beyond care about their own team, and not much else. On here and twitter, you have folk buried into other peoples clubs and whatever's going on, but the whole user base of P&B wouldn't fill Celtic Park.

Unfortunately, this is spot on.

Not enough people care about it in the way we do.

[Bad Wolf]

It's not a coincidence that we live in a country whose press openly despises the political party we have elected for sixteen years, and by extension, the people who elect it. This attitude transfers itself to sport, predictably. But politics are more important than sport IMO, so I devote what little energy I have to working towards making our country better. Perhaps this is a cop out, but I can live with that.

[Monkey Tennis]

9 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Right. 

So the older generation couldn't do anything, for the same reason the younger generation cant, but the younger generation is a passionless group with no drive because theyre doing nothing to change anything and not joining workers unions. 

The younger generation have to just stop supporting their clubs though, in the hope that works, but the older generation couldnt do that at the time because reasons. 

Im glad its cleared up.

This one is just weird.

You've really gone off on one here.

[johnnydun]

From what I can gather from reading this thread...

Go with what fans want- Clubs will have to cut costs and we would have a 'poorer' standard of football on display.

Keep on the current route- Potentially better quality football, but more expensive to watch.

I would rather watch home grown youth come through the ranks and possibly poorer standard (prove it!), than not being able to afford to watch any football at all.

Let's face it, even with us diddy clubs sucking the most amount of cash out fans as possible, we still can't do anything to break the OF strangle hold or do anything significant in Europe.

The problem with this is, every club would have to be on board with it.

I for one would join, as suggested, a Scottish football fans union so we could speak as a collective.

[Monkey Tennis]

A thread asking about apathy starts fizzling out in its third page.

[101]

I would love to know what Supporters Direct make of all this, I was disappointed when they didn't make a stand over VAR, they have been mute on the conference league and now on the moving of the Scottish cup to accommodate some foreign cup final. 

They claim to speak for 20,000 fans yet what have they done to make this claim? Does anyone have a sense of what they get up to?

[RH33]

Once I had the kids I stopped going as much. Once kids were old enough took them to a couple county games at St Mirrin. 

For me the price is a big issue. Ticket and travel and you are £40 down. If you take the kids then that adds more. It's simply not affordable.

I stopped attending even away games when Mackay was brought in at Ross County. I won't be back until he's gone.

The Raith stuff and some of the views I heard where I was working at time and someone who should've known my background also left my pretty disillusioned. 

The coverage on the radio is so focused.on two clubs it's.not.even enjoyable to watch.

VAR is shite. If this conference idea comes.in the rest of football in Scotland should shut up shop as it's for benefit two clubs only. 

 I wonder how your average punter at some of the huge money clubs feels these days with season tickets out their price range.