Conference League Good Guys List

[Guest]

Fascinating reading guys and very educational.

I have a simple question to ask regards the setting up of a new league or association or whatever.

With respect to this Conference League does the SFA have the authority on its own to place it wherever it pleases in the pyramid setup?

[Cowdenleith]

There appears to be strong suggestions on the East Fife thread that their club is going to vote yes.

Why are you attack dogs not circling over on the Division 2 forum?

[Ray Patterson]

Very odd reading these last few pages, a number of Cowden fans (who I've always thought were alright tbf) seemed to be absolutely raging.

It does feel very odd that virginton is 100% the good guy here  

Anyway, as others have said, part of a being National Governing Body is having proper Bylaws or Articles of Association that you must adhere to, otherwise risk punishment from UEFA/FIFA or sportscotland/Government - which is what we've seen with Cricket Scotland.

You can't just break them to add a new league without a resolution or some other legal mechanism. It would be like the SFA announcing that the Scottish Cup is only for 16 clubs or something, it has to be done in accordance with the AoA - which are publicly available.

One thing that hasn't been massively mentioned is the clubs that will abstain, Elgin City really seem to be the only ones so far to have hinted at that with the "It has nothing to do with us" comment. Imagine there will be a few others that will follow suit, especially the regional FA's 
 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Ray Patterson

[Cowdenleith]

4 minutes ago, Ray Patterson said:

Very odd reading these last few pages, a number of Cowden fans (who I've always thought were alright tbf) seemed to be absolutely raging.

It does feel very odd that virginton is 100% the good guy here  

Anyway, as others have said, part of being National Governing Body is having proper Bylaws or Articles of Association that you must adhere to, otherwise risk punishment from UEFA/FIFA or sportscotland/Government - which is what we've seen with Cricket Scotland.

You can't just break them to add a new league without a resolution. It would be like the SFA announcing that the Scottish Cup is only for 16 clubs or something, it has to be done in accordance with the AoA - which are publicly available.

One thing that hasn't been massively mentioned is the clubs that will abstain, Elgin City really seem to be the only ones so far to have hinted at that with the "It has nothing to do with us comment". Imagine there will be a few others that will follow suit, especially the regional FA's 
 

I’m not raging, I think it’s hilarious. Like a bunch of wee kids with a good list/ bad list.  ‘I’ve got another one to add to the list teacher’

And what’s even more funny is you having to add Cowdenbeath through gritted teeth to the good guys list, ouch.

 

[Dev]

At the end of all of this, no matter what the outcome, the SFA and its' mates will be seen by all for what they are. Inefficient and beyond their sell by date.

This latest high quality off the pitch performance by the SFA and its' self-serving mates is only matched by the national mens' team results on the pitch over the last 20 years or so. Is it any wonder that those have been so poor? Smell the coffee! The rot starts at the top at Board level and at self-serving "top" club level. 

The current fiasco may well have a fortunate spin-off. It may be the final straw and have created  a majority amongst voting members in favour of restructuring and reform both on the pitch and at board and officers level. There's a momentum building!

If the Cowdenbeath supporters on this thread are correct in their meanderings then that would be a good thing in a way.

Another fowl-up by the SFA in an attempt to push through changes which are completely ill-thought through and yet another reason for reasonable people who are bothered about Scottish Football to take appropriate steps to start to put things right. They could start by giving ALL licenced clubs full membership and full voting powers.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, ronaldincoo said:

Please tell me you don't have kids.. You appear to have nothing to add to the gene pool.

Pretty sure that central Fife is already a natural cul-de-sac in human progress - thanks for playing anyway. 

 

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

Look guys, if you can't trust the decision making of the board members of a team 37 places and 3 leagues below where they were a decade ago, who can you trust?

[Big Fifer]

Based on conversations folk including myself have had with our chairman, I am concerned and suspect that we can be filed in the bad guy list for this vote. 

[parsforlife]

8 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

A few examples of where the SFA Board has acted only in an approval role regarding new leagues, i.e. without reference to all member clubs. Creation of the LL, admission of new clubs to the EOSFL (ex Junior and amateur), EOS conferences established, EOS Prem + conferences, EOS Prem + D1, D2, D3.  Similarly with the creation of the WOSFL.  What that shows is that each affiliated league has a great deal of autonomy to do as they wish, even when some of its member clubs are SFA members and some are not. 

Similarly if a new league/company was formed, it could be achieved in isolation of the SPFL, LL, HL EOS WOS SOS without the need to seek approval of all members, e.g. if a new West Lothian League was established, it would not require approval of all the SFA members.  The challenge would be to agree its status in conjunction with the other affiliates, e.g. re promotion/relegation.  The SFA could act as a facilitator in such discussions.  

 

8 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

 

Will leave it to Footballfirst to explain 

Burnieman has already started on this but that list is complete nonsense.

The LL, like the WoS were both voted for at AGM.

If a new league is formed, and as a senior league like the WoS and LL it needs AGM approval, doesn’t matter what you call or its region.  If they don’t want to be a senior league they can do so under one of the national associations like junior or amateur. They could also run the league outside of the SFA entity but that’s not recommended if you want to be any more than a pub league as it has quite big implications on player registrations etc.

Changes to- ALREADY APPROVED- leagues is completely different.

[PossilYM]

On 08/05/2023 at 00:21, Only coo in the village said:

You are spot on mate. Tell them to GTF. If this Conference league ever happens then I am finished with football. I have absolute faith that the Cowdenbeath board will want no part in this nonsense. I’ve supported the club for over 45 years , through many horrible seasons and a few amazing ones. The club is trying to launch a new fans trust to ensure the future of our club and if they did have any part in enabling this utter nonsense, then it’s game over as far as I am concerned. Everyone needs to take a stand against this ludicrous proposal. 

Finished with football?

What did you do in 2012?

[Cowden Cowboy]

27 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Finished with football?

What did you do in 2012?

Probably enjoyed Cowden’s title success

[invergowrie arab]

11 hours ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

Look guys, if you can't trust the decision making of the board members of a team 37 places and 3 leagues below where they were a decade ago, who can you trust?

Remember they are in regional leagues so there are 16 HFL teams placed higher too.

Anyway, people seem to be getting confused about what the SFA is. For clarity its a members association . The SFA's powers in the AoA are the powers the association has - not the powers the board has.

The powers the board has to act unilaterally are expressly outlined in Art 60. Nothing in Art 60 gives the board the power to establish leagues.

The previous comment that Art 60 gives the board the powers to do what it wants couldn't be further from the truth. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius - the setting out of powers in Art 60 precludes any deviation from or expansion of those powers.

Subsection o could give the board powers to utilise any authority it had granted to say, the pyramid working group, however unless the membership had previously voted to give the PWG the powers to establish and slot in leagues then that power does not exist and can not be exercised by the board.

Art 18 does not give the SFA powers to establish leagues it gives the SFA the power to authorise leagues and other competitions. I'm amazed anyone reading them could infer anything differently. 

Similarly Art 21 is about seeking SFA authority to organise matches and competitions.

In any case and as has been pointed out already you don't need to carry out a theoretical company law moot to figure all this out as there are real life examples of how this has worked in the last few years with the WoSFL and NCL.

Mind you I'm not an experienced football director so maybe they "just can" who knows.

 

[Brazilianlex]

15 hours ago, virginton said:

Ah yes, those insiders in the game who pointed you in the direction of voting for B teams, before you were forced to do a humiliating reverse ferret once the fait accompli you expected didn't actually materialise. 

Name at least one of those please. 

Is there a reason your such an angry man ? It’s ok not to be ok,, don’t be scared to ask for help.

[Cowden Cowboy]

18 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Remember they are in regional leagues so there are 16 HFL teams placed higher too.

Anyway, people seem to be getting confused about what the SFA is. For clarity its a members association . The SFA's powers in the AoA are the powers the association has - not the powers the board has.

The powers the board has to act unilaterally are expressly outlined in Art 60. Nothing in Art 60 gives the board the power to establish leagues.

The previous comment that Art 60 gives the board the powers to do what it wants couldn't be further from the truth. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius - the setting out of powers in Art 60 precludes any deviation from or expansion of those powers.

Subsection o could give the board powers to utilise any authority it had granted to say, the pyramid working group, however unless the membership had previously voted to give the PWG the powers to establish and slot in leagues then that power does not exist and can not be exercised by the board.

Art 18 does not give the SFA powers to establish leagues it gives the SFA the power to authorise leagues and other competitions. I'm amazed anyone reading them could infer anything differently. 

Similarly Art 21 is about seeking SFA authority to organise matches and competitions.

In any case and as has been pointed out already you don't need to carry out a theoretical company law moot to figure all this out as there are real life examples of how this has worked in the last few years with the WoSFL and NCL.

Mind you I'm not an experienced football director so maybe they "just can" who knows.

 

So SPFL sets up new conference league via the separate company already established.  It then asks SFA to authorise it.  The SFA Board does so - thus the League can be created by that means?  
 

Not every ‘blazer’ in this process is clueless re such matters.  Many clubs have board members with a good deal of football governance and business knowledge and experience.  Yes there are conference tricksters at work but there are shades of grey as there always is in complex situations.  Expect the unexpected - after all in terms of the law and football authorities Rangers never ceased to be 

[Sergeant Wilson]

I think I could get my head round the legalities and powers under AoA If I really wanted to. I'd  put my last pound on Maxwell couldn't do it if his life depended on it. I doubt he's ever read any of the rules.

Anyway I don't need to know the rules because the conference is a bad idea in football terms.

[invergowrie arab]

10 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

So SPFL sets up new conference league via the separate company already established.  It then asks SFA to authorise it.  The SFA Board does so - thus the League can be created by that means?  
 

Not every ‘blazer’ in this process is clueless re such matters.  Many clubs have board members with a good deal of football governance and business knowledge and experience.  Yes there are conference tricksters at work but there are shades of grey as there always is in complex situations.  Expect the unexpected - after all in terms of the law and football authorities Rangers never ceased to be 

The board don't have the power to authorise it.

It's not a power listed under Art 60.

The SFA could authorise it under Art 18 through the membership at their AGM as they did with the WoSFL and NCL.

[Cowden Cowboy]

20 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

The board don't have the power to authorise it.

It's not a power listed under Art 60.

The SFA could authorise it under Art 18 through the membership at their AGM as they did with the WoSFL and NCL.

As far as I can see online Article 60 is  about Director disqualication whilst 62 is powers of directors.  It states in essence the board can exercise all powers and carry out the objects of the SFA which are not by the articles or by statute expressly required to be done in a general meeting.  Thus is there somewhere in articles something that states a new League can only be created by members vote at GM? 

[It's Me]

20 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

As far as I can see online Article 60 is  about Director disqualication whilst 62 is powers of directors.  It states in essence the board can exercise all powers and carry out the objects of the SFA which are not by the articles or by statute expressly required to be done in a general meeting.  Thus is there somewhere in articles something that states a new League can only be created by members vote at GM? 

Article 18.4 makes it clear that any new league can be authorised by the SFA Board and doesn't require a vote by members. 

[LongTimeLurker]

40 minutes ago, It's Me said:

Article 18.4 makes it clear that any new league can be authorised by the SFA Board and doesn't require a vote by members. 

It's the changes that are needed to the Club 42 playoff rules that mean they can't slide the Conference League in unilaterally.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Clyde poll concluded, 88% against.