Ivo den Bieman Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) I think triumphalism is a bit misplaced, yes it's great this shockingly bad proposal was headed off along with hopefully the careers of a few full timers at the SFA. However they just will not stop trying to re-introduce this idea and continued vigilance will be required. The next step should be booting out B teams from the Lowland League and the Challenge Cup and putting serious efforts into bringing a properly functioning reserve league back. Development squads didn't really work, a vast majority in the game are stedfastly opposed to B teams, the reserve team league hasn't been properly explored or discussed. After all if it's the development of the game and players we're interested in then.... ....oh. Edited June 6, 2023 by Ivo den Bieman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: A split could be fixed to give them what they want. There is a way to do this, without a split and in a way that gives Sky the 4 games they really want as i would imagine it will be a long time until one of the old firm finish out of the top 4. Everyone plays everyone twice for a total of 30 games But you also play those who fell into your band of 4 from the season before another twice during the season (once in each half) to add on another 6 games, in a way almost a handicap system which could give a bit of churn in the league placings. You could even start with 3 rounds of the banding games and have the reverse games around Christmas and New Year. Taking the season just past the bands would have been Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Dundee United in one group, Motherwell , Ross County, Livingston and Hibs in the second , St Mirren, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Dundee in the 3rd and Kilmarnock, Arbroath , ICT and Partick Thistle in the last if the league of 16 had started based on last season final positions. The advantage for the fan would be that all 36 games dates (Subject to TV) would be known at the start of the season and the promoted teams would have a chance of staying up as the games from their extra group of 4 would be a lot easier than say Dundee United would have found this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 We'd have been relegated by Christmas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, realmadrid said: There is a way to do this, without a split and in a way that gives Sky the 4 games they really want as i would imagine it will be a long time until one of the old firm finish out of the top 4. Everyone plays everyone twice for a total of 30 games But you also play those who fell into your band of 4 from the season before another twice during the season (once in each half) to add on another 6 games, in a way almost a handicap system which could give a bit of churn in the league placings. You could even start with 3 rounds of the banding games and have the reverse games around Christmas and New Year. Taking the season just past the bands would have been Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Dundee United in one group, Motherwell , Ross County, Livingston and Hibs in the second , St Mirren, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Dundee in the 3rd and Kilmarnock, Arbroath , ICT and Partick Thistle in the last if the league of 16 had started based on last season final positions. The advantage for the fan would be that all 36 games dates (Subject to TV) would be known at the start of the season and the promoted teams would have a chance of staying up as the games from their extra group of 4 would be a lot easier than say Dundee United would have found this season. As someone who supports larger leagues throughout the divisions, I quite like this idea on the face of it. It expands the divisions, keeps the number of fixtures high (clubs will only lose one home game) and maintains the 4 Old Firm games which is important to the TV companies. I do feel that BoDs at clubs in the top flight might not be so receptive, though. It’s not just the OF who need a system set up for them to play each other 4 times a season - some other clubs may be uneasy about the potential loss of income associated with losing guaranteed games against the uglies. I’m not saying that this is a view which would be shared by their fans, btw, with the majority likely preferring to have as little to do with the bigot scum as possible, but I can definitely see a few suits in boardrooms across the top flight worried about a potential loss of income. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I like the way the top leagues work.Look at this season and every league had something to play for right till the end. Imo if i could tweak anything i would move league two to 12 teams and give one direct relegation and one playoff place for a bit more ventilation. This would have a positive effect further down and also make it easier to return to league two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 6 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said: Maxwell has to resign surely. he was fronting this farce and the petted-lip spin about "self interest" winning out shows he hasn't learnt anything at all from this debacle. Just not a credible person to be in a leadership role in the game. Neil Doncaster has spent nearly 14 full years in a leadership role in the game. There are Chernobyl cockroaches with less staying power than Scottish football blazers. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden316 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) Will never likely happen but how about real progressive change in Scottish Football. 48 SPFL clubs. 24 Premiership and 24 Championship. 4 up and 4 down from Premiership all the way through the Scottish Pyramid system. (2 progress into championship from Highland and 2 from Lowland League, alternatively an end of season tournament/Knockout between top 4 from Highland and Lowland League for the 4 SPFL league places) Now that would be real change and wouldn't all the leagues be more exciting with potential more interest? Plus clubs wouldn't have as much fear factor of relegation as there would be more opportunity to progress back up through a more fluid pyramid. Plus Lowland League/other leagues may get more publicity/sponsorship for the league being more interesting. I think fans should be able to be part of some working party to support and work together with Scottish football with such proposals to consider. Big bold and brave ideas are needed in my opinion to freshen things up and of course would support player and club development Edited June 6, 2023 by Cowden316 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) The one massive, regressive object that stops Scottish Football progressing is Celt/Gers. The way they can draw from both sides of the Christian divide both numerically and financially, dwarfing the rest of the system in its entirety prohibits any real progression for the game as a whole. Edited June 6, 2023 by HorseyGhirl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Maxwell in the Times. Still completely blinkered and undeterred. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23572152.scottish-fa-chief-maxwell-undeterred-conference-league-negativity/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, archieb said: Maxwell in the Times. Still completely blinkered and undeterred. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23572152.scottish-fa-chief-maxwell-undeterred-conference-league-negativity/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter This guy needs to go. I’d rather have a breakaway league without the old firm than a league system with Rangers and Celtic b c and d teams Let b teams in and every level if the pyramid will be wrecked. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, archieb said: Maxwell in the Times. Still completely blinkered and undeterred. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23572152.scottish-fa-chief-maxwell-undeterred-conference-league-negativity/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter That's grim! Thought that was written by Maxwells PA rather than a newspaper JOURNALIST Build him up as someone who knows what it's like to miss out on a decent career... i.e. Nothing but a lower league duffer. Use words like "ambitious" to describe the conference and immediately go for "self-interest" when it's voted down... AGAIN, for about the 7th time in total! If the Lowland League clubs hadn't shat the bed in the 1st place and showed the same unity as the big League clubs have done every time they've been asked to discuss this pish over the years, then it would never have got to this stage. As for all these morally corrupt, snivelling weasels copying and pasting a wage in newspapers or dafties doing podcasts, I'm glad the only time I read or hear any of it is when someone links something here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, archieb said: Maxwell in the Times. Still completely blinkered and undeterred. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23572152.scottish-fa-chief-maxwell-undeterred-conference-league-negativity/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter You could replace most of that piece with blah blah blah and it would read the same. Nice balanced journalism, nails his colours to the mast straight off by using ambitious in his opening gambit. No evidence that b teams in the system work. We are all just to take Maxwell's word for it. The clubs have rejected it move on and do your job. Self-interest; he is the one paid nicely to sit in a golden office. These clubs he derides are full of people who devote their lives to keeping the clubs alive. Edited June 7, 2023 by HorseyGhirl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrIrvinePollock Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 From the article: “The SPFL had the Deloitte review which was commissioned by Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee and Dundee United. B teams and player development was a key strategic priority within that. “There’s been a lot of engagement. We did that through the pyramid working group. We thought the resolution was the right thing to take forward. “The feedback we got was that wasn’t the case. Rather than go for a vote that could have been divisive and lead to further problems, the board took the view that the most appropriate thing at this point was to take it off the table. “But we will go back and engage again with clubs and stakeholders and see what that player development pathway looks like going forward.” Player Development also involves coaching, and having capable coaches on board. That to me is the problem. It's not simply about the league structure, it's more to do with the standard of coaches we have in our game. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Watcher Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Some real searching questions in that interview!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said: Some real searching questions in that interview!! Not unlike that official catchup duo in their 'interviews'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 15 hours ago, virginton said: Neil Doncaster has spent nearly 14 full years in a leadership role in the game. There are Chernobyl cockroaches with less staying power than Scottish football blazers. Hard to argue that point! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland ITFC Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, MrIrvinePollock said: From the article: “The SPFL had the Deloitte review which was commissioned by Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee and Dundee United. B teams and player development was a key strategic priority within that. “There’s been a lot of engagement. We did that through the pyramid working group. We thought the resolution was the right thing to take forward. “The feedback we got was that wasn’t the case. Rather than go for a vote that could have been divisive and lead to further problems, the board took the view that the most appropriate thing at this point was to take it off the table. “But we will go back and engage again with clubs and stakeholders and see what that player development pathway looks like going forward.” Player Development also involves coaching, and having capable coaches on board. That to me is the problem. It's not simply about the league structure, it's more to do with the standard of coaches we have in our game. It also involves clubs having a policy of giving younger players the opportunity to play First Team football. You can look at football at all levels & will see some clubs / managers that relish the chance to give young players the opportunity to progress, & equally you'll see as many, if not more, that will always prefer to rely on 'experience'. There is of course a place for that aswell, but more clubs using more younger players - & not just as lip service by having them in the squad / warming the bench - has to have a place in a strategic approach to player development across the game in Scotland. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Highland ITFC said: It also involves clubs having a policy of giving younger players the opportunity to play First Team football. You can look at football at all levels & will see some clubs / managers that relish the chance to give young players the opportunity to progress, & equally you'll see as many, if not more, that will always prefer to rely on 'experience'. There is of course a place for that aswell, but more clubs using more younger players - & not just as lip service by having them in the squad / warming the bench - has to have a place in a strategic approach to player development across the game in Scotland. This all goes back to the decision to have small divisions of just 10 or 12 clubs each. This may make for a situation where "every match counts" BUT in say 16 club divisions there will be more matches where coaches/managers will feel more comfortable fielding young and up and coming players. This is simply because there is less pressure, fear of relegation or fighting for promotion. The same principle applies to the concept of having play-offs as these could affect virtually every club in each division - so heightening the risks associated with fielding less experienced players. Small divisions with play-offs may be more exciting but it's turning down the tap which controls the flow of talent. It is little surprise, therefore, that the national age group teams get less successful as they get older. One thing leads to another! Another benefit of larger divisions is that there is more Diversity. More clubs playing in various differing styles with more and different types of players. There's also more opportunity for Scottish-qualified players and coaches/managers to operate at a higher level within the SPFL set-up. At the end of the day the same clubs will be at the top of the Premier Division so what is there to fear for them from bringing in such improvements? Edited June 7, 2023 by Dev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 hours ago, MrIrvinePollock said: Player Development also involves coaching, and having capable coaches on board. That to me is the problem. It's not simply about the league structure, it's more to do with the standard of coaches we have in our game. This. It has been said for years, coach the coaches so that we no longer have enthusiastic parents running kids teams. They've just got a new deal from Scottish Gas, so use that to fully pay for coaching courses rather than expecting individuals to shell out their own money to climb up the coaching ladder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Hearts B living the Broomhill dream of Friday night football, thanks to the move to Ainslie Park. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-make-decision-on-b-team-arrangement-ahead-of-new-lowland-league-season-4171215 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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