National Conference League

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

i'm surprised at Aberdeen. Alan Burrows has always been one of those guys who just wants to have changes so it looks like things are moving forward. So this proposal must be extra shit for him to KB it.

I understand the idea is the SPFL teams pay a decent wedge of money to fund this league. Paying off the lesser sides so they will go along with it.

The fact that they have went from Aberdeen to Queen's Park is also not a promising move for this happening. Presumably motherwell, dundee, dundee united, livingston, st mirren, ross county, kilmarnock, partick thistle and maybe even inverness have told them to bolt.

 

[Gordon EF]

34 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

There's a big difference to 200 making the effort to 12.   I have spoken to friends of lower league SPFL clubs who have on occasion said they saw no away fans at all, or at least so few they couldn't identify them. Probably pretty rare, but still.   IMO that's not good for the game, we need to find a way of encouraging more people to attend games and that includes away supports. 

I'm fairly sure that on a regular basis there would be more Elgin fans at HL away games than SPFL, does that make the HL a more attractive proposition to an Elgin fan? I don't know any so I don't know, but there does seem to be a reluctance in HL circles to move to League 2 and I absolutely understand it. The Conference must be an even more unpalatable prospect for those up north.

There is a big difference between 200 and 12 but the same logic applies. Surely QotS would take more fans to away games if they never went north of the central belt or Inverness if they never went south of the Tay?

Why ask Peterhead to travel to Dumfries?

There will be four geographically 'extreme' clubs in League Two next season and three of them applied to be in the SPFL since we moved to the current structure. They clearly preffered playing in a national league and don't show any signs of wanting to go back down. If some HL clubs never want to get promoted, good for them. I don't see what problem people have with clubs who can and want to play in a national league doing so.

[Shannon]

2 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

The ridiculous suggestion of the participation of Queens Park B's is surely the final nail in the Conference coffin.

How out of touch are these muppets ?!!

One of the main men pushing this - Ian Maxwell - first team he played with - Queens Park for 5 seasons. Hmmm nothing fishy here honest

Edited May 15, 2023 by Shannon

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

i'm surprised at Aberdeen. Alan Burrows has always been one of those guys who just wants to have changes so it looks like things are moving forward. So this proposal must be extra shit for him to KB it.

I understand the idea is the SPFL teams pay a decent wedge of money to fund this league. Paying off the lesser sides so they will go along with it.

The fact that they have went from Aberdeen to Queen's Park is also not a promising move for this happening. Presumably motherwell, dundee, dundee united, livingston, st mirren, ross county, kilmarnock, partick thistle and maybe even inverness have told them to bolt.

 

None of those clubs can afford to run two teams simultaneously. Neither can Queen's Park obviously, but they have delusions of grandeur.

[Burnieman]

10 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

There is a big difference between 200 and 12 but the same logic applies. Surely QotS would take more fans to away games if they never went north of the central belt or Inverness if they never went south of the Tay?

Why ask Peterhead to travel to Dumfries?

There will be four geographically 'extreme' clubs in League Two next season and three of them applied to be in the SPFL since we moved to the current structure. They clearly preffered playing in a national league and don't show any signs of wanting to go back down. If some HL clubs never want to get promoted, good for them. I don't see what problem people have with clubs who can and want to play in a national league doing so.

I know you disagree with me as we have had this discussion before.

[Burnieman]

10 hours ago, Shannon said:

One of the main men pushing this - Ian Maxwell - first team he played with - Queens Park for 5 seasons. Hmmm nothing fishy here honest

To be honest, nothing the SFA/Maxwell do in order to get this vote through, would surprise me.

[PossilYM]

So Queen Park Strollers are getting the band back on the road.

Respect 

[Shawheadrover]

Queen's Park no longer exists: it is a franchise, having sold their souls to the Devil long ago. Gretna anyone?

[juniorref]

Having been involved at all levels from the old East Region juniors (remember them!) to the Championship and everywhere inbetween, this idea is a complete shambles.

The purported development requirements that saw the 3 sides buying their way into the Lowland League has probably helped one player in getting a first team start (Leon King at Rangers) - I may be missing someone obvious - which would appear to show it is not working at present, however it would also be foolish to expect instant results given its developmental goals and would probably only be fair to assess it after 4-5 years. The only benefit I have seen so far is that it would allow someone like King the opportunity to play in the games he did, which he would not have been able to do had he been on loan in Leagues 1 or 2 for example.

The loan market is tried and tested and works. Look around all of the leagues and the national teams across Europe and you see players who have gone on to big things having been on loan in the lower leagues or ended up in the lower divisions and found their level having initially been on loan from the "bigger" clubs. This is where clubs can benefit the most in my opinion.

If the SFA are insisting on change, then moving to a 3 division structure is probably better than the current model (12-14-16 or 14-14-14 with league splits to ensure Sky get their 4 matches that they're interested in) and can bring in a working development league with clubs who are actually interested in such a structure.

[PossilYM]

2 minutes ago, juniorref said:

Having been involved at all levels from the old East Region juniors (remember them!) to the Championship and everywhere inbetween, this idea is a complete shambles.

The purported development requirements that saw the 3 sides buying their way into the Lowland League has probably helped one player in getting a first team start (Leon King at Rangers) - I may be missing someone obvious - which would appear to show it is not working at present, however it would also be foolish to expect instant results given its developmental goals and would probably only be fair to assess it after 4-5 years. The only benefit I have seen so far is that it would allow someone like King the opportunity to play in the games he did, which he would not have been able to do had he been on loan in Leagues 1 or 2 for example.

The loan market is tried and tested and works. Look around all of the leagues and the national teams across Europe and you see players who have gone on to big things having been on loan in the lower leagues or ended up in the lower divisions and found their level having initially been on loan from the "bigger" clubs. This is where clubs can benefit the most in my opinion.

If the SFA are insisting on change, then moving to a 3 division structure is probably better than the current model (12-14-16 or 14-14-14 with league splits to ensure Sky get their 4 matches that they're interested in) and can bring in a working development league with clubs who are actually interested in such a structure.

Referee names Rangers player.

lol

[PossilYM]

29 minutes ago, Shawheadrover said:

Queen's Park no longer exists: it is a franchise, having sold their souls to the Devil long ago. Gretna anyone?

Just you worry about Spartans 

[rockson]

22 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

It is actually 0.01 % Rockson. 

You van have an A+ for English and a  D- for Arithmetic.

 

It is actually 0.01 % Rockson.  Even better then.

You van have an A+ for English and a  D- for Arithmetic.

A+++ for crap typing and crap proof reading actually.  But......  "You van have?"

[Poet of the Macabre]

When you see what a fucking mess the Colt sides have made of the Lowland League, I honestly think they should consider ripping it all up and starting again.

No automatic promotion to L2 from LL or HL is absurd - if the clubs are so scared of falling out the league then why bother even having the pyramid? A fully-functioning pyramid should mean that relegation is a huge blow but not one that threatens the existence of a well-run club.

Currently 3 teams in the LL can't get promoted or relegated; immediately turns the league into a total farce.

The LL is going to run - again - with 19 teams again next season? Is it that difficult to make sure you have 16/18/20 teams in your division? Think SOS will also have 13 - ridiculous.

In HL we have no relegation because all of the champions below were ineligible for promotion; again, why are clubs taking part in a competition they can't or don't want to progress from? Who does this system benefit and how is it improving Scottish football in any way?

Rather than any meaningful changes, we get these total bollocks 'Conference League' proposals that almost literally nobody wants - utter pish.

[ekok]

Sorry Poet , do you actually know that the HL have exactly the same reward failure nonsense that the SPFL have for team 42. The bottom team in HL have play off against any eligible team from Tier below.

Pot kettle black

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

Is it that difficult to make sure you have 16/18/20 teams in your division? Think SOS will also have 13 - ridiculous.

What is it you would like them to do? Magic 3, 5 or 7 new clubs out of thin air and force them to join the league?

 

1 hour ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

In HL we have no relegation because all of the champions below were ineligible for promotion; again, why are clubs taking part in a competition they can't or don't want to progress from? Who does this system benefit and how is it improving Scottish football in any way?

What's your suggestion here? That they form a new division below the Highland League consisting of Fort William, Golspie Sutherland, Lochee United and Tayport playing each other 12 times each?

The non-licensed teams are playing in their division for the same reason every other team plays in a league in football, to try to win it.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by craigkillie

[MrIrvinePollock]

7 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

When you see what a fucking mess the Colt sides have made of the Lowland League, I honestly think they should consider ripping it all up and starting again.

With respect, it's not the Colt sides that have made the mess of the Lowland League....it's the Lowland League who have made the mess of the Lowland League. 

[Dundee Hibernian]

8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

What is it you would like them to do? Magic 3, 5 or 7 new clubs out of thin air and force them to join the league?

As @MrIrvinePollock states above, the mess has been caused by the Lowland League: there were 19 teams last season because the LL clubs voted to add three B teams, the LL could have opened itself up to an even number of sides from the pyramid below, not an odd number of second string sides.

[welshbairn]

9 hours ago, craigkillie said:

What's your suggestion here? That they form a new division below the Highland League consisting of Fort William, Golspie Sutherland, Lochee United and Tayport playing each other 12 times each?

The non-licensed teams are playing in their division for the same reason every other team plays in a league in football, to try to win it.

There are also clubs in all 3 leagues making different degrees of effort and investment to move towards licensing, for some it's well nigh impossible if they're on public parkland but being part of the pyramid provides a great incentive to improve facilities which benefits fans and players alike. I just hope the SFA aren't creating even more barriers with their relook at the licensing criteria.

Edited May 17, 2023 by welshbairn

[Burnieman]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

There are also clubs in all 3 leagues making different degrees of effort and investment to move towards licensing, for some it's well nigh impossible if they're on public parkland but being part of the pyramid provides a great incentive to improve facilities which benefits fans and players alike. I just hope the SFA aren't creating even more barriers with their relook at the licensing criteria.

Not sure the SFA are actively looking at increasing thresholds on licencing, there's been little indication of that (not saying they aren't, they're capable of anything at the moment).  If there's to be a major change at Entry level in future I would say it's seating.

What they might look to do is simply state that to play at level 4 (ie the SPFL) you need a Bronze licence as opposed to Entry, that might keep the SPFL clubs happy as it's another layer of protection (even though not every SPFL clubs has a Bronze licence). 

However that in itself won't matter to 95% of non-league clubs and never will.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

Not sure the SFA are actively looking at increasing thresholds on licencing, there's been little indication of that (not saying they aren't, they're capable of anything at the moment).  If there's to be a major change at Entry level in future I would say it's seating.

What they might look to do is simply state that to play at level 4 (ie the SPFL) you need a Bronze licence as opposed to Entry, that might keep the SPFL clubs happy as it's another layer of protection (even though not every SPFL clubs has a Bronze licence). 

However that in itself won't matter to 95% of non-league clubs and never will.

Brown said something on Official Catchup about clubs entering the Conference maybe needing to upgrade their facilities, giving standard of lighting as an example, as it would come under new rules for the SPFL.