National Conference League

[Shannon]

17 minutes ago, ekok said:

. 

Secondly an absolute selling of the jerseys around promotion/ relegation by duplicating the scandalous Team 42 " reward failure,  second chance " crap in SPFL League 2. From a League with such a long and distinguished history,  shameful. 

The Pyramid is evolving and at some point the two elephants in the room will need to be addressed.  South of Scotland at Tier 6 and Highland having equal rights at Tier 5. 

The Conference is the least of your worries. 

 

 

Most supporters in West and East of Scotland are far more worried about the Conference, B teams and severe lack of promotion to tier 5 than Highland League only having a play off for their bottom team!

 

They are only a handful of licensed clubs at the moment anyway in Midlands & North Caledonian League plus none in North Juniors and so once more get licensed then an argument for automatic relegation.

 

South of Scotland at tier 6 doesn't bother most East or West teams. However by having 3 up and 3 down from Lowland League - can even have 18 teams if wanted - like nearly all the West and East of Scotland Leagues then any team(s) being promoted from South then finishing bottom of Lowland League would then either move to West or East or South of Scotland League would likely be pragmatic enough to have a look at sorting that anomoly. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Shannon

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, ekok said:

Firstly there  were no B teams applying to join the HL, so actually not even in the discussion.

ICT came along and went "oh, you're playing with an odd number of teams with Cove's promotion. How about we fill that spot? Saves a team from being idle, helps our development as we don't like the look of the new reserve league".

HL said no. We'll stick with 17 teams. ICT then loaned out nearly a full team to Fort William. Leading the league to limit the number of loan signings from one club.

ICT forgot to wave a wad of cash.

[ekok]

Just now, Shannon said:

Most supporters in West and East of Scotland are far more worried about the Conference, B teams and severe lack of promotion to tier 5 than Highland League only having a play off for their bottom team!

 

Ok so the HL get off Scot free for having NO automatic relegation/ promotion whilst the LL gets absolute pelters for only having one, maybe two. Excellent example of the double standards at play.

Of course there should be more promotion into LL. The number and strength beneath makes it a no brainer.  Until the other anomalies are addressed,  quite a hard sell.

Edited May 1, 2023 by ekok
Clarification

[Burnieman]

20 minutes ago, ekok said:

Ok so the HL get off Scot free for having NO automatic relegation/ promotion whilst the LL gets absolute pelters for only having one, maybe two. Excellent example of the double standards at play.

Of course there should be more promotion into LL. The number and strength beneath makes it a no brainer.  Until the other anomalies are addressed,  quite a hard sell.

The LL rightly get pelters for obvious reasons.    If the northern section of the Pyramid had a few dozen licenced clubs pushing for upwards progression then you have a point but until then file it under "we'll get to that later".

[FairWeatherFan]

24 minutes ago, ekok said:

Ok so the HL get off Scot free for having NO automatic relegation/ promotion whilst the LL gets absolute pelters for only having one, maybe two. Excellent example of the double standards at play.

I'd say plenty of people have passed comment on the HL Pyramid playoff since it was confirmed what the format would be. Critical of the potential reprieve for the bottom club. What would happen if the HL ending up at an odd number again.

Fort William taking the piss last season.

There's even been chat about what happens if Lochee United managed to pull off a miracle and win the Midlands title. Since presumably Strathspey are off on their holidays.

But with no licensed champions clearly on the horizon, a freeze on licensing applications, and the lack of a backlog in general. It's not an immediate concern.

 

[ekok]

Just now, Burnieman said:

The LL rightly get pelters for obvious reasons.    If the northern section of the Pyramid had a few dozen licenced clubs pushing for upwards progression then you have a point but until then file it under "we'll get to that later".

Exactly what are those obvious reasons?  The WOSFL would not even exist or be in the Pyramid except for the LL taking the bull by the horns.  Hate to use the word, but,  fact.

A few dozen licensed clubs pushing up to HL, seriously. ?

 

 

 

[Burnieman]

2 minutes ago, ekok said:

Exactly what are those obvious reasons?  The WOSFL would not even exist or be in the Pyramid except for the LL taking the bull by the horns.  Hate to use the word, but,  fact.

A few dozen licensed clubs pushing up to HL, seriously. ?

If you need any of that explained to you, then there's no point.

[ekok]

I can assure you I require absolutely no explanation,  fact.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, ekok said:

The WOSFL would not even exist or be in the Pyramid except for the LL taking the bull by the horns.  Hate to use the word, but,  fact.

Depends on your point of view. For a lot of those clubs they feel they would have been in the pyramid for 2019-20 if it hadn't been for the LL & EoS seeking changes.

By 2020 after the failure of the PWG meetings to get anything done. Enough West of Scotland clubs individually sought out a means to get into the pyramid.

Facilitating that isn't exaclty taking the bull by the horns.

[ekok]

Agree the PWG was going nowhere.  To be fair pushing at an open door , for most part with West Juniors.

That said I dont think LL gets anywhere near enough credit for making the WOSFL a reality.  This was  clearly going to create enormous pressure for the LL teams.  Not happened yet , but will do.

[Poet of the Macabre]

A few general points:

• I personally detest the idea of 'B' teams being included in the pyramid. Even seeing "Stranraer Reserves" in the SOSL gives me the boak. Why would you pollute your league with teams who have zero ambition and exist solely to support a different club?
• Remember when people tried to argue the 'B' teams were just going to be included for "one season only" and some utter cretins believed it and reported it as fact?
• The addition of a 'Conference' or 'League 3' could actually be decent but it absolutely does not need Rangers and Celtic reserve sides included. I'd prefer they just expanded League 2 into a 16-team division though, with the bottom two being automatically relegated. It's utterly absurd that you can finish bottom of the SPFL and still get to save yourselves in a play-off.
• Comparing our pyramid with the one in England is utterly and completely depressing. You've got Luton, who could well have gone from Conference to Premier League and Scunthorpe who have fallen from Championship to the Conference North. The system should be set up so that, at least in theory, any team can go from pub league to Champions League or vice versa. Instead, we have two clubs running the show and a whole bunch of self-serving clubs more than happy to kiss their arse and take a few bribes.

[highlandmac]

12 hours ago, ekok said:

 

Secondly an absolute selling of the jerseys around promotion/ relegation by duplicating the scandalous Team 42 " reward failure,  second chance " crap in SPFL League 2. From a League with such a long and distinguished history,  shameful. 

 

 

 

 

Long and distinguished history of blatant protectionism.

The pyramid,well over a hundred years overdue,was meant to do something about that but in an incredibly short period of time it's been disregarded over the interests of 2 clubs and a dozen or so quislings

 

[Burnieman]

10 hours ago, ekok said:

Agree the PWG was going nowhere.  To be fair pushing at an open door , for most part with West Juniors.

That said I dont think LL gets anywhere near enough credit for making the WOSFL a reality.  This was  clearly going to create enormous pressure for the LL teams.  Not happened yet , but will do.

What pressure? 

Wos/EoS/SoS:  "We need more promotion places"

LL: "Naw"

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

What pressure? 

Wos/EoS/SoS:  "We need more promotion places"

LL: "Naw"

Just to add to this 

What LLland actually say is more childish.

"we're not opening up relegation until those protectionists in the SPFL open up promotion for our ambitious, forward thinking, wonderful clubs"

I did paraphrase a little of course, but happy to help clarify.

Edited May 2, 2023 by HorseyGhirl

[ekok]

9 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

What pressure? 

Wos/EoS/SoS:  "We need more promotion places"

LL: "Naw"

The pressure of making it possible for West clubs to get promoted,  where none existed before. We wouldn't even be having this conversation otherwise. 

Think we all agree in due course a fair  number of those clubs likely to emulate or better FC Edinburgh,  Kelty,  Bonnyrigg.  Should it happen quicker,  yes ,  but at least it now can.

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

 

• Comparing our pyramid with the one in England is utterly and completely depressing. You've got Luton, who could well have gone from Conference to Premier League and Scunthorpe who have fallen from Championship to the Conference North. The system should be set up so that, at least in theory, any team can go from pub league to Champions League or vice versa. Instead, we have two clubs running the show and a whole bunch of self-serving clubs more than happy to kiss their arse and take a few bribes.

 

Don't disagree with the rest, but Brechin and Cowdenbeath have gone from the Championship to the 5th tier and Cove Rangers have gone from the Highland Legaue to the Championship since ours was set up. Obviously there needs to be more ventilation to allow more promotion, but the "pub league to Champions League" path does exist.

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, ekok said:

The pressure of making it possible for West clubs to get promoted,  where none existed before. We wouldn't even be having this conversation otherwise. 

Think we all agree in due course a fair  number of those clubs likely to emulate or better FC Edinburgh,  Kelty,  Bonnyrigg.  Should it happen quicker,  yes ,  but at least it now can.

Yes we would, because a tier 5 league in the West would have been created regardless. You're trying to paint the Lowland League as the creators, that is BS, they played their part clearly but it was the will of a number of larger clubs wanting to join the Pyramid that made it possible.  Let's not revise history to try and save the LL some credibility.

Since that moment, the LL has suffocated progression rather than ventilate it, and assuming you're EK, then you're part of that problem.

[Burnieman]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hibs-conference-league-snub-example-29859309

[Big Fifer]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hibs-conference-league-snub-example-29859309

The fact none of these players would end up in the first team was immediately identified by fans but it's taken years for the gid fitba boys to finally get it. 

[ekok]

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Yes we would, because a tier 5 league in the West  Let's not revise history to try and save the LL some credibility.

Not at all revising , just revisiting and earlier in thread gave due credit for vast majority of West Clubs who supported what was eventually agreed. Not claiming LL created, but played crucial and central role when PWG going round in circles amongst endless whataboutary and recrimination. 

That took compromise and burying of hatchets , suggest we need more of that in current situation. Rightly or wrongly the Conference seems to be the only show in town.  The proposals which I believe the  Leagues outwith the SPFL put forward not accepted, that's the reality.