nicotina Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 lok are allowed 900 full capacity what would happen in this scenario 900 are in weather is torrential rain 800 congregate under the covered enclosure is this safe ? is it allowed ? do we have for instance a crowd limit under the covered terrace of say 300 with 300 on the railway side and say 150 behind either goals ? what would a council health and safety person say if in attendance considering we need safety barriers in our covered terrace & is allegedly not up to scratch maybe someone can enlighten me genuine question 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, nicotina said: lok are allowed 900 full capacity what would happen in this scenario 900 are in weather is torrential rain 800 congregate under the covered enclosure is this safe ? is it allowed ? do we have for instance a crowd limit under the covered terrace of say 300 with 300 on the railway side and say 150 behind either goals ? what would a council health and safety person say if in attendance considering we need safety barriers in our covered terrace & is allegedly not up to scratch maybe someone can enlighten me genuine question It’s all generally based off the green Green guide. That’s a slightly old version but I’m not paying £95 to get the latest. It does have a few interpretations at times which can lead to interesting discrepancies particularly as you move between councils. One of the factors in calculating capacity considers if there is free movement between covered and uncovered areas as explained below a. Partial cover Experience shows that where partial cover is provided, in poor weather conditions standing spectators will, whenever possible, migrate to covered areas. In certain circumstances this can result in unacceptable local concentrations of spectators, particularly where the covered area is smaller than the uncovered area. Additional safety concerns arise when conditions under the roof are inferior to those on the rest of the standing area. In such situations management might consider the following options: i. to extend the existing roof or provide a new roof covering the whole area ii. to install appropriate barriers, to prevent or control migration Spectator accommodation – standing 131 iii. to adopt appropriate stewarding strategies to manage or control the migration, preferably with the assistance of CCTV monitoring. If none of the above options are acted upon, or if either options ii. or iii. are implemented but the problems of migration and overcrowding continue, further consideration should be given to the following options: iv. to limit the final capacity of the whole section by restricting the available viewing area to the area under cover v. to limit the final capacity of the whole section by a reduction of the (S) factor. Management and, where a safety certificate is in force, the local authority, will need to judge carefully all the circumstances before deciding which of the above options to pursue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 42 minutes ago, nicotina said: lok are allowed 900 full capacity what would happen in this scenario 900 are in weather is torrential rain 800 congregate under the covered enclosure is this safe ? is it allowed ? do we have for instance a crowd limit under the covered terrace of say 300 with 300 on the railway side and say 150 behind either goals ? what would a council health and safety person say if in attendance considering we need safety barriers in our covered terrace & is allegedly not up to scratch maybe someone can enlighten me genuine question Not to worry, you'll be ground sharing with Queens Park soon enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicotina Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 what stenhousemuir lol thanks parforlife 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 So basically 900 is to be spread around the ground. If everyone was to congregate, this could be a problem for the club if they are unable to safely police it? Sorry, read it twice and struggle with that type of reading! A lot of trust on the supporters there as I can't see a small committee being able to handle a capacity crowd when a monsoon blows over and they all head for cover. I'm sure everyone would squeeze in just fine though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Spyro said: So basically 900 is to be spread around the ground. If everyone was to congregate, this could be a problem for the club if they are unable to safely police it? Sorry, read it twice and struggle with that type of reading! A lot of trust on the supporters there as I can't see a small committee being able to handle a capacity crowd when a monsoon blows over and they all head for cover. I'm sure everyone would squeeze in just fine though 900 is for the full ground, if there’s free movement around the ground then that creates the potential for over-crowding, that risk is increased with the some cover in places but other places with no cover. This risk, and the clubs ability to manage that risk is considered under the safety factor for capacity. Safety, along with a judgement on the physical structures(is it grass banking, good quality terrace or ageing and crumbling) etc are given a multiplier by whoever is working things out, the worse they judge things the worse it gets. So for example if the council were happy that the situation could be reasonably managed and that if everyone rushed for cover there was safe spillover etc then they may give it a factor of 0.8. That means the club can only sell tickets for 80% of the true capacity. If at the next review(which I believe is yearly) they think that overcrowding of an area was not managed as well as they expected then they can reduce that factor to say 0.5. The area hasn’t got smaller so the full capacity hasn’t changed, but the available capacity has been reduced. TL:DR. If you manage prevent the overcrowding well enough they’ll be happy, if you don’t and issues arise the capacity will be cut to a level that they think can be managed. Can’t be bothered reading the guide again to check if it’s in there on somewhere else but there’s a worked example showing the process which takes into account a similar situation of overcrowding in a singing section, things like regular standing in gangways etc were given as reasons for giving that area a smaller capacity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejackdaw Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Health and safety gone madness once again could easily get 900 safely in the newlandsfileld shed and a good few thousand in that ground without a problem just like there's never been a problem in the grounds history until some jobs worth has intervened. We Live in a mad world 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Feel sorry to Pollok to an extent. There's no room to develop that ground on any side. Was pointed out on here about selfish and possibly dangerous idiots parking cars at the bottom of a stairwell. Thing is if the council had sent someone along to watch say Pollok v Clydebank midweek at the end of last season and seen that. I would be quite rightly asking a few questions of the Pollok committee. They have been given a safety certificate by the city council. That doesn't mean the committee walk away and go and count raffle tickets. They have a duty of care whether it's 90 or 900. Long term will it matter. If Pollok and i hope they do, move up and out the Wosfl then Newlandsfield will be past it's sell by date anyway. Lesser Hampden here we come. Edited March 31, 2023 by PossilYM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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