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Stadium and pitch investment


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6 hours ago, Donathan said:

Across UEFA’s 55 member nations, some have a national stadium (e.g., France, Norway, Denmark, England, Wales, Scotland, Austria), whereas others like Spain/Italy/Germany travel around the different club ground.

 

 

The key point though is that countries which do use a national stadium, it’s nearly always located in the capital. The only counterexample I can find (apart from Hampden) is Malta who play in Ta’Qali rather than Valletta.

 

 

So what?

Glasgow has staged international football literally since the very dawn of the concept.

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4 minutes ago, velo army said:

I wonder what other countries think of their national stadia. I know people mention Germany, Spain and Italy not having a national stadium, but I reckon it would be a political hot potato if Spain had a national stadium in one place, same with Germany. 

Anyway, the pitch is dreadful but I know little about the mechanics of growing grass. Would a hybrid pitch be much better? 


Thing with Germany is that you’ve got a number of different cities that receive attention. Frankfurt is the economic capital, Munich is the cultural capital, Berlin the political capital, then various other large cities throughout the country.

 

Italy and (especially) Spain are quite divided countries with large amounts of power devolved to local levels and, at least in the case of Spain, separatist movements that are popular in more than one autonomous region.

 

Spain rarely play in Barcelona, and when they do, they play at Espanyol’s ground. For context, FC Barcelona is the club aligned with the separatist Catalan movement whereas Espanyol (as the name suggest) is loyalist to the Spanish government.

 

Ground size is the biggest thing for me. In my formative years, most home qualifiers were Saturday afternoon affairs or occasionally Wednesday nights at 7.45pm. Living between the two major cities meant that my dad would only ever take me to the Saturday afternoon games. No chance of getting home at gone midnight on a school night.

 

In turn that meant it was very hard to get tickets because the TA supporters club bought them all up. I never liked the fact that fans were being shut out of Scotland games so I’d have welcomed a move to Celtic Park (7,500 extra fans) or Murrayfield (15,000 extra fans)

 

A redevelopment of Hampden must be at least 70,000 capacity imo. It’ll mean more money because at least one of the old firm reach the Semis and Final of both cups most years so you’ll have 4-6 sell out crowds just from the cups each year plus the Scotland games will sell well when they’re at the weekend and a larger capacity ground will have more prospect of hosting European finals.

 

Speaking of which, we had a CL final and Europa final within 4 years of each other 2003-2007. Surely we are overdue bringing a European final back to Scotland. 

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3 hours ago, gannonball said:

The toilets are at the bottom of each sections stairs like 90% of stadiums? I also quite like that it's food trucks as it means way more choice than the generic standard football stand fayre. Can be shite if it's raining though. Its still no ideal for football but better than Hampden imo but I suppose the bar is pretty low there.

Im sure we had to use portaloos

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2 hours ago, Donathan said:


In my formative years, most home qualifiers were Saturday afternoon affairs or occasionally Wednesday nights at 7.45pm. Living between the two major cities meant that my dad would only ever take me to the Saturday afternoon games. No chance of getting home at gone midnight on a school night.

 

 

Tournament qualifiers were almost exclusively weekdays up until the France 1998 qualifiers, I think after that our board were quite good at negotiating home games for a Saturday, and in the Euro 2008 qualifiers we got lucky as nobody could agree the fixtures and the computer draw gave us all our home games on a Saturday. With the way its drawn now and the "week of football" you'll be lucky to get one Saturday home game per campaign, even then the Saturday games aren't guaranteed to be afternoon kick offs e.g. our most recent game vs Republic of Ireland which knackers public transport options for a lot of people.

That said, I do have sympathy and admiration for those who come down for evening games,  I certainly wouldn't be up for trekking up to e.g. Aberdeen (if in this hypothetical scenario Pittodrie holds 50k) on a Wednesday night when the game is on TV.

The other two 50k+ capacity stadia in Glasgow are far better than Hampden in terms of access and probably atmosphere as well, I didn't mind the home games when Hampden was out of use for the Commonwealth games -or indeed the aforementioned France 1998 qualifiers if you want to go back that far- but I also don't want the two clubs who play there to get even more money.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

Tournament qualifiers were almost exclusively weekdays up until the France 1998 qualifiers, I think after that our board were quite good at negotiating home games for a Saturday, and in the Euro 2008 qualifiers we got lucky as nobody could agree the fixtures and the computer draw gave us all our home games on a Saturday. With the way its drawn now and the "week of football" you'll be lucky to get one Saturday home game per campaign, even then the Saturday games aren't guaranteed to be afternoon kick offs e.g. our most recent game vs Republic of Ireland which knackers public transport options for a lot of people.

That said, I do have sympathy and admiration for those who come down for evening games,  I certainly wouldn't be up for trekking up to e.g. Aberdeen (if in this hypothetical scenario Pittodrie holds 50k) on a Wednesday night when the game is on TV.

The other two 50k+ capacity stadia in Glasgow are far better than Hampden in terms of access and probably atmosphere as well, I didn't mind the home games when Hampden was out of use for the Commonwealth games -or indeed the aforementioned France 1998 qualifiers if you want to go back that far- but I also don't want the two clubs who play there to get even more money.

 

 

My biggest issue with the OF grounds is that one of them is patently better than others (Bigger capacity, better atmosphere and at worst marginally more difficult to get to), but the SFA would never want to be seen to be favouring one bigot brother over the other so at best you’ll get 50% of the games at the far superior ground just to placate Rangers. 

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6 hours ago, tamthebam said:

If we're going to take "Yes" votes into consideration then a new national stadium should be built in Dundee. 

With proper pehs for half time snacks. 

Eh min.

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3 hours ago, velo army said:

Anyway, the pitch is dreadful but I know little about the mechanics of growing grass. Would a hybrid pitch be much better? 

I think it already is a hybrid pitch at Hampden. The new pitch at Lesser Hampden is hybrid, and apparantly its exactly the same size and type as the pitch next door.

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1 hour ago, Ben Reilly said:

I think it already is a hybrid pitch at Hampden. The new pitch at Lesser Hampden is hybrid, and apparantly its exactly the same size and type as the pitch next door.

Livi fans and Killie fans will have the answer to this then....

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2 hours ago, Fuctifano said:

The other two 50k+ capacity stadia in Glasgow are far better than Hampden in terms of access and probably atmosphere as well, I didn't mind the home games when Hampden was out of use for the Commonwealth games -or indeed the aforementioned France 1998 qualifiers if you want to go back that far- but I also don't want the two clubs who play there to get even more money.

This is the crazy thing about it, both Celtic park and ibrox are miles better than Hampden, in the same city, and are about the same capacity (ibrox) or bigger (Celtic park).

In terms of being able to sell Hampden and have no stadium running costs, have a better view for all supporters and a superior atmosphere, it seems such an obvious solution…

But there’s not one non-OF fan that would want to see us play home matches at either ahead of Hampden. Rightly so. Why would we choose to give them even more money? 

If we even had a long term vision for developing Hampden over the next 10-20 years it would at least give folk hope for the future. Square of either end and continue the south stand round then do the north as well, one stand every 5 years or so. But no, I think we’re stuck with it as it is.

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12 hours ago, craigkillie said:

There is a redevelopment of some sort planned for Hampden if we are successful in this bid for Euro 2028, which I suspect we will be.

Aye, a lick of paint. Nothing fundamental like doing a Stuttgart.

I always thought they should make a combined national stadium ala the Millennium in Cardiff. 

Big, close to the pitch and with a roof - what's not to love?

But nope, we fight about Edinburgh or Glasgow, being tainted with rugby blah blah and are left with crumbling Hampden.

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On 27/03/2023 at 11:16, PauloPerth said:

I was in the lower tier for Hearts v Saints at Murrayfield 5 years ago or so when Tynecastle’s Main Stand being built.

As someone who’d previously felt Murrayfield would be ideal for big Scotland football internationals with it being square behind the goals etc, I was shocked at how poor an experience it was.  You are miles back behind the goals with a dreadful view of the far end and the facilities in the ground are very limited.

Its location near a major rail station and near lots of bars and restaurants is better, put purely on stadium alone it offers little improvement over Hampden.

Was there not a bit of an issue with Hearts using Murrayfield in that they marked the pitch the same size as the Tynecastle pitch, which is obviously quite a bit smaller than they actually could have done? In any event, it will always be closer there than Hampden is from behind the goal.

I like Murrayfield as an experience - in general the views are better than Hampden from almost everywhere and all round the facilities are better in terms of catering etc. It is obviously geared up for a different type of event than Scotland football games/Scottish Cup finals etc but I think there are things there that are positive that we could learn from if we were redoing Hampden.

That said, many of the issues people complain about re: Hampden can easily be avoided by just actually planning ahead a little bit. "It takes too long to get away in the car"... Well park somewhere sensible and plan your route away from the ground - don't just join the queue pointing at the M74. There are plenty stations nearby other than Mount Florida if you don't want to stand in a monumental queue for a train. Its not like there are no queues at other big stadiums' nearby stations before/after games. That's just a fact of life if you've got tens of thousands of people entering/leaving the same place at the same time.

There are obviously some issues with turnstiles - though a lot of that is caused by people a) not leaving the pub til 1.30pm at the earliest and b) not being to operate their QR codes for whatever reason - but how much of that would be fixed at another stadium in reality if people are still turning up half cut 20 minutes before kick off without having downloaded their tickets yet or pitching up at the wrong gate?

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1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

Aye, a lick of paint. Nothing fundamental like doing a Stuttgart.

I always thought they should make a combined national stadium ala the Millennium in Cardiff. 

Big, close to the pitch and with a roof - what's not to love?

But nope, we fight about Edinburgh or Glasgow, being tainted with rugby blah blah and are left with crumbling Hampden.

A stadium owned by a subsidiary of the Welsh Rugby Union that the football team have played in once in since 2011 isn't really a combined national stadium anymore is it? There must be better examples than that.

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1 hour ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

Was there not a bit of an issue with Hearts using Murrayfield in that they marked the pitch the same size as the Tynecastle pitch, which is obviously quite a bit smaller than they actually could have done? In any event, it will always be closer there than Hampden is from behind the goal.

I like Murrayfield as an experience - in general the views are better than Hampden from almost everywhere and all round the facilities are better in terms of catering etc. It is obviously geared up for a different type of event than Scotland football games/Scottish Cup finals etc but I think there are things there that are positive that we could learn from if we were redoing Hampden.

That said, many of the issues people complain about re: Hampden can easily be avoided by just actually planning ahead a little bit. "It takes too long to get away in the car"... Well park somewhere sensible and plan your route away from the ground - don't just join the queue pointing at the M74. There are plenty stations nearby other than Mount Florida if you don't want to stand in a monumental queue for a train. Its not like there are no queues at other big stadiums' nearby stations before/after games. That's just a fact of life if you've got tens of thousands of people entering/leaving the same place at the same time.

There are obviously some issues with turnstiles - though a lot of that is caused by people a) not leaving the pub til 1.30pm at the earliest and b) not being to operate their QR codes for whatever reason - but how much of that would be fixed at another stadium in reality if people are still turning up half cut 20 minutes before kick off without having downloaded their tickets yet or pitching up at the wrong gate?

I can’t remember about the way they marked the pitch you mention, just recall being disappointed with the view and stadium after expecting so much more.

Regarding leaving the ground, I completely agree. It’s this sense of entitlement folk have that right the game’s over, I want to be back in town NOW.  50,000 people exiting at the same time, be realistic.

A few years back a group of us left Hampden after a Scotland game the usual shambles with no clear plan. Stood in the queue for a train at mount Florida that barely moved so we just started walking. I think we were back to the edge of the town centre in 45-50 minutes or so and into a pub.

It’s probably a poor reflection on what we’re all like nowadays, but is the thought of a 3 mile walk such a hardship? Different for elderly, disabled or with very young kids, but the vast majority of Scotland fans are young adults perfectly capable of that walk back to the city centre pubs/ Central Station/ Queen Street.

We as football fans probably need to do a bit better with climate change etc, not expecting to drive/ taxi door to door. Maybe it could be promoted as the big march home or something. Anyway, off on a tangent .. 

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5 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

A few years back a group of us left Hampden after a Scotland game the usual shambles with no clear plan. Stood in the queue for a train at mount Florida that barely moved so we just started walking. I think we were back to the edge of the town centre in 45-50 minutes or so and into a pub.

It’s probably a poor reflection on what we’re all like nowadays, but is the thought of a 3 mile walk such a hardship? Different for elderly, disabled or with very young kids, but the vast majority of Scotland fans are young adults perfectly capable of that walk back to the city centre pubs/ Central Station/ Queen Street.

I've never done anything other than walk back into town after games at Hampden. Always amazed that able-bodied adults would do anything else.

As you say, leaving any big event with 50,000 people will always involve a delay in terms of traffic or queues at stations. Any able-bodied adult should be fine just hoofing it back into town. You're probably about as quick anyway.

Hampden has obvious flaws, but I can't believe the fuss people make about access. It's not really noteably bad in that regard.

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1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

I've never done anything other than walk back into town after games at Hampden. Always amazed that able-bodied adults would do anything else.

As you say, leaving any big event with 50,000 people will always involve a delay in terms of traffic or queues at stations. Any able-bodied adult should be fine just hoofing it back into town. You're probably about as quick anyway.

Hampden has obvious flaws, but I can't believe the fuss people make about access. It's not really noteably bad in that regard.

Aye it’s funny how a few generations ago walking would have been the first, and in most cases only, option.  
It’s as if now it’s the last option after all others have been explored.

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1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

I can’t remember about the way they marked the pitch you mention, just recall being disappointed with the view and stadium after expecting so much more.

Regarding leaving the ground, I completely agree. It’s this sense of entitlement folk have that right the game’s over, I want to be back in town NOW.  50,000 people exiting at the same time, be realistic.

A few years back a group of us left Hampden after a Scotland game the usual shambles with no clear plan. Stood in the queue for a train at mount Florida that barely moved so we just started walking. I think we were back to the edge of the town centre in 45-50 minutes or so and into a pub.

It’s probably a poor reflection on what we’re all like nowadays, but is the thought of a 3 mile walk such a hardship? Different for elderly, disabled or with very young kids, but the vast majority of Scotland fans are young adults perfectly capable of that walk back to the city centre pubs/ Central Station/ Queen Street.

We as football fans probably need to do a bit better with climate change etc, not expecting to drive/ taxi door to door. Maybe it could be promoted as the big march home or something. Anyway, off on a tangent .. 

I'm able bodied but am I fuck walking back to Inverness!

All brilliant jokes aside, my issue is the lack of input from the Police to get the area dispersed of people.  As I mentioned on the Cyprus match thread, there was a number of cross-junctions in and around Hampden with 4-way lights with a what felt like a 10 mile stream or cars and buses all going one way towards the M74 and the other 3 exits and these cross-junctions had no one at them.  They could easily have been ignored and we could've been herded through by the copious amounts of police all over the place who were stood next to their motorcycles all with their fingers up there arse.  It's common practice at big events for the police to do this and what I've seen at Hampden before for gigs etc.

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