Binos -vs- Sons - Episode 7

[Gnash]

At least one bit of time-wasting was included.  At about 3.50, the ball goes out for a goal kick - the ball boy (possibly girl) throws a different ball to the keeper and he kicks it away to waste a few seconds.

[FifeSons]

12 minutes ago, Gnash said:

At least one bit of time-wasting was included.  At about 3.50, the ball goes out for a goal kick - the ball boy (possibly girl) throws a different ball to the keeper and he kicks it away to waste a few seconds.

Which was the correct thing to do. You can’t decide to start using multi ball midway through a game. You either use it the whole match or not at all. Ref didn’t know the rules and booked Long.

I’ll be writing to the SFA to make a formal complaint about said ballperson.

Edited March 27, 2023 by FifeSons

[Binos]

Also missed your keepers wonder save in second half

Unless I imagined that

If chance right at end had been kept low,  that's 3-2

[The Moonster]

11 hours ago, Binos said:

Unless I imagined that

Probably, you've imagined everything else you've posted about.

[Frank Quitely]

I really hope the teams are still neck and neck by the time the Binos visit the Rock as the thread will be off the scale

[WC Boggs]

20 hours ago, FifeSons said:

Which was the correct thing to do. You can’t decide to start using multi ball midway through a game. You either use it the whole match or not at all. Ref didn’t know the rules and booked Long.

I’ll be writing to the SFA to make a formal complaint about said ballperson.

I  always thought it was up to the ref to call for another ball if the match ball would take a long time to retrieve. Then return the natch ball to play at the earliest opportunity. My old wee red book knowledge may be well outdated though.   If the old rule still stands you have a point.

Putting all the bickering aside, Dumbarton did well to come back from a demoralising humping at home with a depleted squad.  I described this match as a battle between two very different managers with very different football philosophies.  Essentially all out attack V score and contain.  Both can lead to getting caught out and both did.  As Jan put it so well, they cancelled each other out.  That's the big story of this match and the battle continues, despite all the after match bitch slapping going nowhere.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

As a postscript to Saturday's questionable refereeing performance by Mr Scott, I can heartily recommend an article by John Penman in the current  issue (27) of Nutmeg.  In it he highlights how the intro of VAR has necessitated six officials covering each Premier Division fixture, four in the stadium and two remotely monitoring, all of which has now come at a cost in the rotation of officials and their levels of experience across the three lower divisions.  Nail firmly hit on the head and fair play to the editor for looking beyond the top league.

[The Moonster]

38 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

As a postscript to Saturday's questionable refereeing performance by Mr Scott, I can heartily recommend an article by John Penman in the current  issue (27) of Nutmeg.  In it he highlights how the intro of VAR has necessitated six officials covering each Premier Division fixture, four in the stadium and two remotely monitoring, all of which has now come at a cost in the rotation of officials and their levels of experience across the three lower divisions.  Nail firmly hit on the head and fair play to the editor for looking beyond the top league.

To be fair you didn't need a Nutmeg article, a number of refs at this level taking charge of their first games under such scrutiny and it obviously shows. We just don't matter enough and fast tracked refs will now be the norm. 

[pleslie99]

37 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

As a postscript to Saturday's questionable refereeing performance by Mr Scott, I can heartily recommend an article by John Penman in the current  issue (27) of Nutmeg.  In it he highlights how the intro of VAR has necessitated six officials covering each Premier Division fixture, four in the stadium and two remotely monitoring, all of which has now come at a cost in the rotation of officials and their levels of experience across the three lower divisions.  Nail firmly hit on the head and fair play to the editor for looking beyond the top league.

U know me, I’m going to stick up for officials and this is no different. Saturdays official was never going to get it easy, both teams vying for top spot, he was going to bear the brunt of the displeasure from both sets of fans. Yes VAR has meant there is more requirements for officials in the spfl but it doesn’t mean they are ‘bad’ at what they do. Refs have a thankless task, every time they make a decision 50% of the people there think he’s wrong 100% of the time. The lack of understanding of the laws of the game from football fans is the bigger problem and this is not helped by Ifab confusing everyone and anyone with their adjustments to things like the handball rule.

Please remember football without refs is nothing, if the ref at this level you don’t think is good enough, then who’s going to come replace him? Someone even less experienced? There’s a shortage of refs across the game, from grassroots up. They cannot fill the non-league games every week with full quotas of refs + assistants. I suggest those criticising go ahead and take up one of the courses and join the ranks, you will find it’s not as easy as you think! Give the guys in the middle a break and thank them for allowing the rest of us to enjoy the game.

[WC Boggs]

8 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

U know me, I’m going to stick up for officials and this is no different. Saturdays official was never going to get it easy, both teams vying for top spot, he was going to bear the brunt of the displeasure from both sets of fans. Yes VAR has meant there is more requirements for officials in the spfl but it doesn’t mean they are ‘bad’ at what they do. Refs have a thankless task, every time they make a decision 50% of the people there think he’s wrong 100% of the time. The lack of understanding of the laws of the game from football fans is the bigger problem and this is not helped by Ifab confusing everyone and anyone with their adjustments to things like the handball rule.

Please remember football without refs is nothing, if the ref at this level you don’t think is good enough, then who’s going to come replace him? Someone even less experienced? There’s a shortage of refs across the game, from grassroots up. They cannot fill the non-league games every week with full quotas of refs + assistants. I suggest those criticising go ahead and take up one of the courses and join the ranks, you will find it’s not as easy as you think! Give the guys in the middle a break and thank them for allowing the rest of us to enjoy the game.

Your points are well made, but I  reserve the right to look back on Mr Dallas as a complete fud.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

9 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

U know me, I’m going to stick up for officials and this is no different. Saturdays official was never going to get it easy, both teams vying for top spot, he was going to bear the brunt of the displeasure from both sets of fans. Yes VAR has meant there is more requirements for officials in the spfl but it doesn’t mean they are ‘bad’ at what they do. Refs have a thankless task, every time they make a decision 50% of the people there think he’s wrong 100% of the time. The lack of understanding of the laws of the game from football fans is the bigger problem and this is not helped by Ifab confusing everyone and anyone with their adjustments to things like the handball rule.

Please remember football without refs is nothing, if the ref at this level you don’t think is good enough, then who’s going to come replace him? Someone even less experienced? There’s a shortage of refs across the game, from grassroots up. They cannot fill the non-league games every week with full quotas of refs + assistants. I suggest those criticising go ahead and take up one of the courses and join the ranks, you will find it’s not as easy as you think! Give the guys in the middle a break and thank them for allowing the rest of us to enjoy the game.

As a referee you are perfectly entitled to stand up for your colleagues, but let me ask you a question - were you in attendance at Forthbank last Saturday ?

If you were you would surely have witnessed a very mediocre performance by the match officials which started in the opening minutes and continued from there.  I could easily list six or seven incidents which incensed the supporters of both clubs, and it's probably a good thing that the outcome was a draw.

As for the fans, aye some may be ignorant on the laws but the levels of fury amongst Sons fans in the first half in particular can't be put down simply to that.  And the Binos fans were right to howl about timewasting - it annoys the f**k out of us too by the way.

I have great respect for those who choose to be referees but as the Nutmeg article suggests it seems that a whole lot of experience is now concentrated at the top division due to VAR and it is affecting the lower leagues.

Finally, I have a question; why has the role of linesman been virtually reduced to that of a spectator with a flag ?  Aron Lynas was kicked in the head (not wilfully) directly in front of the far-side assistant and yet his involvement was - nothing.

Edited March 29, 2023 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Jan Vojáček]

The thing I don't get is why VAR has to be current, young and fit, referees. Surely there are plenty of recently retired refs who have hung up the whistle because they can't keep up with a pitch full of 20 somethings who would happily become VAR?

Calum Scott on Saturday was hopelessly out of his depth. And that's as bad for him as it is for the two teams. It wasn't fair to give a rookie referee such a big game - especially when you had far more experienced guys like Gavin Duncan and Euan Anderson refereeing two of the other games in the league.

[BinoBalls]

20 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

The thing I don't get is why VAR has to be current, young and fit, referees. Surely there are plenty of recently retired refs who have hung up the whistle because they can't keep up with a pitch full of 20 somethings who would happily become VAR?

That’s a very sensible suggestion, which means it will never happen. 

[FifeSons]

11 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

U know me, I’m going to stick up for officials and this is no different. Saturdays official was never going to get it easy, both teams vying for top spot, he was going to bear the brunt of the displeasure from both sets of fans. Yes VAR has meant there is more requirements for officials in the spfl but it doesn’t mean they are ‘bad’ at what they do. Refs have a thankless task, every time they make a decision 50% of the people there think he’s wrong 100% of the time. The lack of understanding of the laws of the game from football fans is the bigger problem and this is not helped by Ifab confusing everyone and anyone with their adjustments to things like the handball rule.

Please remember football without refs is nothing, if the ref at this level you don’t think is good enough, then who’s going to come replace him? Someone even less experienced? There’s a shortage of refs across the game, from grassroots up. They cannot fill the non-league games every week with full quotas of refs + assistants. I suggest those criticising go ahead and take up one of the courses and join the ranks, you will find it’s not as easy as you think! Give the guys in the middle a break and thank them for allowing the rest of us to enjoy the game.

Oh, come on. The guy on Saturday was another level of dreadful. What are we meant to do? Just ignore that and not mention it. I don't think anyone has said anything unreasonable, just valid criticism.

Edited March 29, 2023 by FifeSons

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Jan Vojáček said:

The thing I don't get is why VAR has to be current, young and fit, referees. Surely there are plenty of recently retired refs who have hung up the whistle because they can't keep up with a pitch full of 20 somethings who would happily become VAR?

Calum Scott on Saturday was hopelessly out of his depth. And that's as bad for him as it is for the two teams. It wasn't fair to give a rookie referee such a big game - especially when you had far more experienced guys like Gavin Duncan and Euan Anderson refereeing two of the other games in the league.

Was shocked to see Euan given the Bonnyrigg game. I know he won't get given Sons games because he lives here (which is a bit of a silly rule if you ask me) but makes no sense to throw someone inexperienced into a match like that. 

[Ignoramus]

6 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Was shocked to see Euan given the Bonnyrigg game. I know he won't get given Sons games because he lives here (which is a bit of a silly rule if you ask me) but makes no sense to throw someone inexperienced into a match like that. 

It’ll be interesting to see who picks up the return fixture. The referee who has been given it so far - and called it off - doesn’t have much experience outside of the HL this season. I thought that was an odd choice at the time and it would be a bizarre call to stick with that appointment after how Saturday went.

[pleslie99]

9 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

As a referee you are perfectly entitled to stand up for your colleagues, but let me ask you a question - were you in attendance at Forthbank last Saturday ?

If you were you would surely have witnessed a very mediocre performance by the match officials which started in the opening minutes and continued from there.  I could easily list six or seven incidents which incensed the supporters of both clubs, and it's probably a good thing that the outcome was a draw.

As for the fans, aye some may be ignorant on the laws but the levels of fury amongst Sons fans in the first half in particular can't be put down simply to that.  And the Binos fans were right to howl about timewasting - it annoys the f**k out of us too by the way.

I have great respect for those who choose to be referees but as the Nutmeg article suggests it seems that a whole lot of experience is now concentrated at the top division due to VAR and it is affecting the lower leagues.

Finally, I have a question; why has the role of linesman been virtually reduced to that of a spectator with a flag ?  Aron Lynas was kicked in the head (not wilfully) directly in front of the far-side assistant and yet his involvement was - nothing.

No I wasn’t in attendance so granted I didn’t witness it. Some of the contentious calls were not shown on the highlights (or weren’t contentious)  

With regards to linesmen (or assistant referees to give them their official name) their involvement is purely down to the request of the referee. Some will brief assistants that they want as much help as possible and to flag for anything they see (very rare) some will say they want nothing other than offsides and balls in/out of play. Lots and most will be somewhere in between. I get that can be a frustrating answer for fans but ultimately the decision lies with the referee. With regards to the high foot on Saturday, the assistant probably didn’t flag as he felt the ref would have seen it and didn’t blow, he may have flagged had he thought the ref had missed it.

[WC Boggs]

19 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

No I wasn’t in attendance so granted I didn’t witness it. Some of the contentious calls were not shown on the highlights (or weren’t contentious)  

With regards to linesmen (or assistant referees to give them their official name) their involvement is purely down to the request of the referee. Some will brief assistants that they want as much help as possible and to flag for anything they see (very rare) some will say they want nothing other than offsides and balls in/out of play. Lots and most will be somewhere in between. I get that can be a frustrating answer for fans but ultimately the decision lies with the referee. With regards to the high foot on Saturday, the assistant probably didn’t flag as he felt the ref would have seen it and didn’t blow, he may have flagged had he thought the ref had missed it.

My views on refs are tempered by the number of times I've watched highlights and found that what I thought I saw at the game didn't happen.  It is a thankless job as you say, with the modern gift of highlights showing where the ref got it wrong, but usually more so  where he got it right.

[Binos]

The howling from the Dumbarton fans at the ref started early when he dared book the wee ginger one for a clear dive 

[rockson]

9 minutes ago, Binos said:

The howling from the Dumbarton fans at the ref started early when he dared book the wee ginger one for a clear dive 

No. It started earlier than that when he booked Greg Buchanan for a nothing challenge.  And from where I was  (admittedly further than the Stirling fans at the south end of their stand) the wee ginger one (Finlay Gray) seemed to have been fouled. I note that one Binos fan on here thought it was a foul - and therefore a penalty, though I thought it was actually outside the box.