Dundee FC vs Ayr United - 21/03/23

[Crawford]

I was worried, but then I remembered it was the other Glasgow suburbs team. 3-0 Dundee.

[Boo Khaki]

I've been watching Dundee for night on 50 years, and I would honestly say Cameron, McGhee, Anderson would be the worst midfield I've ever seen the team put out, even in the -20 points season when we were fielding amateurs. Not a single actual central midfield player among them.

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

I've been watching Dundee for night on 50 years, and I would honestly say Cameron, McGhee, Anderson would be the worst midfield I've ever seen the team put out, even in the -20 points season when we were fielding amateurs. Not a single actual central midfield player among them.

Hold my beer...

[Boo Khaki]

Hately was an absolute chancer, but for all his faults, at least Martin Woods was an actual central midfield player by trade. Baffling how Bowyer insists on playing CB's, wingers, and AM's in there when we have full-time CM's sitting getting splinters.

[Pens_Dark]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

Hately was an absolute chancer, but for all his faults, at least Martin Woods was an actual central midfield player by trade. Baffling how Bowyer insists on playing CB's, wingers, and AM's in there when we have full-time CM's sitting getting splinters.

Mcghee has paid someone in the club to list him as a midfielder because that is what it shows his position as on the official website. 

Genuinely depressing looking at the starting line up and seeing him in there every week at CM.

[1nickydevlin]

41 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Dundee will put us under pressure because of players like McMullen and McCowan, They also cause us problems with their full backs getting forward so we will probably spend a lot of time without the ball. When we do get it, we shouldn't punt it long. 

I wouldn't start with O'Conner or JML, maybe play McKenzie and Ashford to play in midfield to help protect the full backs. Unless we can keep the ball and pass it round Dundee but we have only managed that against Cove once and Hamilton once. 

You better run the past ashfords father 1st .can't having not playing his natural position. 

[LM_0803]

10 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said:

Mcghee has paid someone in the club to list him as a midfielder because that is what it shows his position as on the official website. 

Genuinely depressing looking at the starting line up and seeing him in there every week at CM.

I've been thinking about Saturday and have some thoughts to share.

I like McGhee. He was good under mcpake in the championship at CB imo. Even last year when he came back from his long term injury he was decent at RB/CB, again in my opinion. No matter what the player thinks - as I believe McGhee sees himself as a midfielder - Bowyer has to see that it just doesn't work. 

 

On Saturday there were countless times throughout the first half that we were in a 4-1-1-2-2 formation. Williamson was the deepest midfielder sitting on his own with no-one near him. Cameron was finding space in the middle but is ineffective in CM. To my amazement McGhee was almost like a second striker trying to make runs past the opposition defence. Not sure if anyone else noticed it but there were so many gaps in midfield in the first half. We should be thankful Partick are as bad as us.  

Byrne should be in the team over McGhee, and I'd drop Williamson for Robertson tomorrow night. Cameron is wasted further back, play him behind the striker. Get him running at defenders instead of trying to play "Hollywood passes" and being outfought further back. 

Also, stop playing Mulligan out of position!! He's wasted at RB, LW AND RW. Get him in central midfield. He can run with the ball well and is strong unlike Cameron, and can tackle aswell (just don't get sent off again). 

On Shaun Byrne now. I remember alot of fans loving him ever since he joined. I never saw the same hype if I'm being honest. He's good for the odd hard tackle and keeps it tidy. However he's not a progressive passer that we lack from central midfield and is far too negative. Has he scored for us sinc joining? Can't remember ever seeing a goal from him tbh. He's a better option in midfield than McGhee and Grayson when he was here, but he's hardly the second coming of busquets that I've seen from Dundee fans on twitter. 

As some other posters may know, I've never been a fan of marshall, Legzdins or sweeney so I'm not fussed if/when they leave at the end of the year. Still baffles me that we let McGowan go even if he wouldn't have played much if he'd stayed. We've got no fight in the team and I don't mean someone to smash into someone early doors. Other teams end up harassing the ref and winding up our players and we aren't wise to it. If you want an example just recall the Arbroath game in January when Williamson was sent off after a second booking. 

At the end of the day, it's probably a good thing that the whole team is out of contract. There's only a few players I'd keep like Kerr, Ashcroft, Robertson, Mulligan, Cameron and McCowan being the names that come to mind first. Big rebuild whatever league we're in, Bowyer's recruitment/academy players has to improve. 

 

 

[TxRover]

Came by to see the handbags pre-match here and found this bit…

21 hours ago, Vernon gilmore said:

Reckon he’s actually gonna shock us and play , Jak and Robbo together upfront on Tuesday , when it comes off and we stroll it 4 nil he’ll then drop Jak again for the Raith game on Saturday, it’s the Bowyer way 

…and realized that newspapers and TV, let alone broadband, probably really haven’t made it to Dundee yet.

[Pens_Dark]

4 minutes ago, LM_0803 said:

I've been thinking about Saturday and have some thoughts to share.

I like McGhee. He was good under mcpake in the championship at CB imo. Even last year when he came back from his long term injury he was decent at RB/CB, again in my opinion. No matter what the player thinks - as I believe McGhee sees himself as a midfielder - Bowyer has to see that it just doesn't work. 

 

On Saturday there were countless times throughout the first half that we were in a 4-1-1-2-2 formation. Williamson was the deepest midfielder sitting on his own with no-one near him. Cameron was finding space in the middle but is ineffective in CM. To my amazement McGhee was almost like a second striker trying to make runs past the opposition defence. Not sure if anyone else noticed it but there were so many gaps in midfield in the first half. We should be thankful Partick are as bad as us.  

Byrne should be in the team over McGhee, and I'd drop Williamson for Robertson tomorrow night. Cameron is wasted further back, play him behind the striker. Get him running at defenders instead of trying to play "Hollywood passes" and being outfought further back. 

Also, stop playing Mulligan out of position!! He's wasted at RB, LW AND RW. Get him in central midfield. He can run with the ball well and is strong unlike Cameron, and can tackle aswell (just don't get sent off again). 

On Shaun Byrne now. I remember alot of fans loving him ever since he joined. I never saw the same hype if I'm being honest. He's good for the odd hard tackle and keeps it tidy. However he's not a progressive passer that we lack from central midfield and is far too negative. Has he scored for us sinc joining? Can't remember ever seeing a goal from him tbh. He's a better option in midfield than McGhee and Grayson when he was here, but he's hardly the second coming of busquets that I've seen from Dundee fans on twitter. 

As some other posters may know, I've never been a fan of marshall, Legzdins or sweeney so I'm not fussed if/when they leave at the end of the year. Still baffles me that we let McGowan go even if he wouldn't have played much if he'd stayed. We've got no fight in the team and I don't mean someone to smash into someone early doors. Other teams end up harassing the ref and winding up our players and we aren't wise to it. If you want an example just recall the Arbroath game in January when Williamson was sent off after a second booking. 

At the end of the day, it's probably a good thing that the whole team is out of contract. There's only a few players I'd keep like Kerr, Ashcroft, Robertson, Mulligan, Cameron and McCowan being the names that come to mind first. Big rebuild whatever league we're in, Bowyer's recruitment/academy players has to improve. 

 

 

Can't disagree with pretty much all of this. 

I think I said early on this season that if you can't identify that McGhee isn't a midfielder as a manager then there is something seriously wrong but every manager before Bowyer has done it! So many games since the turn of the year I look at our midfield and can ALMOST understand if he was used as a sitter in front of the defence but often he is the most advanced of all midfielders? Cameron is no use if that isn't his job linking up our sitters/cm with the striker and he doesn't have the physicality to play as a cm himself. 

I can't say for sure whether Byrne would improve the team or not currently. He is treated as some sort of messiah with the majority of our fan base and I just don't get it to be honest. Williamson was turgid on Saturday but I've now come to the conclusion that the reason these players aren't performing is because they simply aren't good enough or they aren't being deployed by Bowyer to suit their strengths. 

RE Marshall, Legzdins and Sweeney (I would throw Ashcroft in there also) I could not care a jot if they go. We have been stale pish for the past few seasons and a big clear out is needed.

[No_Problemo]

53 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Dundee will put us under pressure because of players like McMullen and McCowan, They also cause us problems with their full backs getting forward so we will probably spend a lot of time without the ball. When we do get it, we shouldn't punt it long. 

I wouldn't start with O'Conner or JML, maybe play McKenzie and Ashford to play in midfield to help protect the full backs. Unless we can keep the ball and pass it round Dundee but we have only managed that against Cove once and Hamilton once. 

I’m not sure you can complain about Bullen not changing things then suggest playing McKenzie over O’Connor tbh. 

[LM_0803]

9 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said:

Can't disagree with pretty much all of this. 

I think I said early on this season that if you can't identify that McGhee isn't a midfielder as a manager then there is something seriously wrong but every manager before Bowyer has done it! So many games since the turn of the year I look at our midfield and can ALMOST understand if he was used as a sitter in front of the defence but often he is the most advanced of all midfielders? Cameron is no use if that isn't his job linking up our sitters/cm with the striker and he doesn't have the physicality to play as a cm himself. 

I can't say for sure whether Byrne would improve the team or not currently. He is treated as some sort of messiah with the majority of our fan base and I just don't get it to be honest. Williamson was turgid on Saturday but I've now come to the conclusion that the reason these players aren't performing is because they simply aren't good enough or they aren't being deployed by Bowyer to suit their strengths. 

RE Marshall, Legzdins and Sweeney (I would throw Ashcroft in there also) I could not care a jot if they go. We have been stale pish for the past few seasons and a big clear out is needed.

Forgot this was the Ayr match thread and not the Dundee thread

[Ludo*1]

Speaking of worst ever midfield partnerships for Dundee - can anyone name these two?

[diegomarahenry]

1 hour ago, No_Problemo said:

I’m not sure you can complain about Bullen not changing things then suggest playing McKenzie over O’Connor tbh. 

O’Conner is better than McKenzie out wide.

Cammy Kerr Vs Paddy Reading however isn’t something worth thinking about. 
 

Either we play on the front foot and push them back or we absorb pressure and catch them on the counter attack. I know which one I would prefer but I also know which one Bullen will do. 

[diegomarahenry]

2 hours ago, 1nickydevlin said:

You better run the past ashfords father 1st .can't having not playing his natural position. 

If Ashfords father has a problem, I’ll meet him outside the TipTop Chinese.

I’ll be wearing a Dundee scarf and answering to the name “Derry”

[No_Problemo]

18 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

O’Conner is better than McKenzie out wide.

Cammy Kerr Vs Paddy Reading however isn’t something worth thinking about. 
 

Either we play on the front foot and push them back or we absorb pressure and catch them on the counter attack. I know which one I would prefer but I also know which one Bullen will do. 

Yeah - I would definitely be playing Ashford on Reading’s side. McKenzie doesn’t really offer anything as a wide midfielder though - especially with McAllister behind him. 

[Wee jeemie]

3 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I've been watching Dundee for night on 50 years, and I would honestly say Cameron, McGhee, Anderson would be the worst midfield I've ever seen the team put out, even in the -20 points season when we were fielding amateurs. Not a single actual central midfield player among them.

Cameron is like McCowan either hot or cold no middle ground with either of them , , Max is decent at least he runs with the ball at defences, but Mulligan is far better at that , and McGhee should be in the back 4 , preferably in place of the slow Ashcroft, 

[Derry Alli]

They come looking for @The Derry, they call out @The Derry. He responds, they run.

Life at the top is hard, lad. 

Not at Tip Top though, easy pickings with these shitebags.

[Richey Edwards]

6 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Ayr needed a reaction to the Falkirk game and sort of got one against a dreadful Hamilton team. Bullens post match interview had a very smug, "job done" vibe to it so we will get beat. He will pick the same 11 (minus Musonda) Dundee will know that because we are that transparent and we will be shite from kick-off. 

3-0 Dundee. Ayr to have 6 shots on goal, zero on target. 

If Bullen reverts to the 442 long ball shite I shall run all the way to Dundee and fly kick him.

[johnnydun]

Just now, Richey Edwards said:

If Bullen reverts to the 442 long ball shite I shall run all the way to Dundee and fly kick him.

I wish Bowyer would revert to a 442 tbh.

[Richey Edwards]

Just now, johnnydun said:

I wish Bowyer would revert to a 442 tbh.

I am not against a 442 in theory.

I am only against it if it involves hoofball shite.