Scottish Football Attendances

[The Other Foot]

Scottish game is doomed. It's bent, it's broken, it's beyond salvage.

The fans will get jaded, they'll depart, they'll f**k off to the rugby. 

ARMAGEDDON. 

 

Except......

 

"The Scottish Professional Football League continues to top the match attendance per capita table across Europe. New figures show the SPFL had 21.3 attendees per 1,000 people at matches across its top four divisions, and a weekly average support of 117,700 fans."

 

"Last season, over four million fans turned out to watch matches across the Scottish Premiership, Championship, League One and League Two."

"[Scotland's attendance per capita] is 65 per cent higher than second-placed country the Netherlands, which has 12.9 attendees per 1000 people."

 

 

65%..........

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by The Other Foot

[Hawkeye the Gnu]

57 minutes ago, The Other Foot said:

Scottish game is doomed. It's bent, it's broken, it's beyond salvage.

The fans will get jaded, they'll depart, they'll f**k off to the rugby. 

ARMAGEDDON. 

 

Except......

 

"The Scottish Professional Football League continues to top the match attendance per capita table across Europe. New figures show the SPFL had 21.3 attendees per 1,000 people at matches across its top four divisions, and a weekly average support of 117,700 fans."

 

"Last season, over four million fans turned out to watch matches across the Scottish Premiership, Championship, League One and League Two."

"[Scotland's attendance per capita] is 65 per cent higher than second-placed country the Netherlands, which has 12.9 attendees per 1000 people."

 

 

65%..........

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Nothing to do with your post but just saw your ‘location’.

Does that mean your seat at Easter Road has an arsehole behind you and a Bawbag in front.

sounds like a similar position to mine at Rugby Park….

[kennie makevin]

Certainly the Scottish top flight is doomed, its, bent, it's broken, it's beyond salvage as long as the bigot brothers aren't  kicked out or brought to financial heel. Attendances are irrelevant.

Edited March 3, 2023 by kennie makevin
Typo

[The Other Foot]

20 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Certainly the Scottish top flight is doomed, its, bent, it's broken, it's beyond salvage as long as the bigot brothers aren't  kicked out or brought to financial heel. Attendances are irrelevant.

Why? I love it, personally.

[The Other Foot]

26 minutes ago, Hawkeye the Gnu said:

Nothing to do with your post but just saw your ‘location’.

Does that mean your seat at Easter Road has an arsehole behind you and a Bawbag in front.

sounds like a similar position to mine at Rugby Park….

Nah, the one in front is more of a fanny.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

Whilst this all makes great reading and there is no doubt attendances are up (well they definitely are at St. Mirren anyway), I assume we shouldn’t kid ourselves that these stats aren’t heavily skewed by 2 clubs. 

[The Other Foot]

8 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Whilst this all makes great reading and there is no doubt attendances are up (well they definitely are at St. Mirren anyway), I assume we shouldn’t kid ourselves that these stats aren’t heavily skewed by 2 clubs. 

 

Perhaps, but not really sure how relevant this is. Celtic and Rangers are both part of Scottish football, like it or not. 

 

Unless you were referring to Elgin City and Bonnyrigg Rose?

[kennie makevin]

1 hour ago, The Other Foot said:

Why? I love it, personally.

Yep it's really good knowing whose won it before a ball is kicked. 

[Theyellowbox]

2 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

Certainly the Scottish top flight is doomed, its, bent, it's broken, it's beyond salvage as long as the bigot brothers aren't  kicked out or brought to financial heel. Attendances are irrelevant.

Agree to a point. The attendances outwith those two are very impressive when compared to both absolute and as a % right across Europe, 'big 5' leagues aside. The Financial gulf is what kills competition in Scotland. Mainly because the poor TV revenue means that fans through the door amount for a much much larger % of cash in Scotland vs other leagues. Coupled with the utter mess the bigger clubs got in financially at the turn of the century, which is only in the last 5 years been corrected.

Had Aberdeen and Utd had their golden spells 10 years prior, they'd have built up such an advantage financially, we'd have had a much more level playing field. Even 10 years later where league titles came with all the CL monies they wouldn't have racked up debt, would have grown clubs off pitch and would have increased the commercial appeal of the whole league.

As soon as Rangers and Celtic got far enough ahead financially, they became unmatchable on and off the pitch.

That said, I can see a slightly different future. Hearts are showing how well you can do when you get the finances right. Retain assets, bring in better quality and grow the club. Yes, they are not miles ahead in terms of points, but in every other way, they are now in a wee section of their own (in my opinion) between the top two and the others.

I'd argue that if they had a few years being the best of the rest and can build on the current squad, then if the conditions were right that they had a particularly good season and the other two cancel each other out, Hearts could challenge.

I also think that if you get Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen all pulling away, then they grow that gap too.

Attendances, coupled with non mental owners is the route to that.

Also, attendance wise, I think Rangers and Celtic have peaked. If you are a glory hunter kid in Inverness/Dundee/Perth. You are more likely now to not bother with either of them and go for a man city/Chelsea/PSG etc. Just as accessible to the 'viewer' as Rangers or Celtic. That will translate to bums on seats in a few years. Conversely, other clubs become more appealing as time goes on.

Anyone with kids who go to football coaching, will see that compared to 10 years ago, you see much less Rangers and Celtic kits, more other sides and in my case significantly more St Johnstone kits. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Theyellowbox

[Antiochas III]

1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Whilst this all makes great reading and there is no doubt attendances are up (well they definitely are at St. Mirren anyway), I assume we shouldn’t kid ourselves that these stats aren’t heavily skewed by 2 clubs. 

As will many league total attendances around Europe be skewed by 1 or 2 clubs...

[Wilbur]

I'm always sceptical about official attendance figures.

Some club's reported attendances will include all season ticket holders, even if they don't actually attend that match. (St Mirren ?).

And some clubs attendances will include freebies handed out to groups of schoolkids for 'grade 3' fixtures (St Mirren ?). BTW, Ive no issue with this, I'm all in favour of promoting new fans.

I do genuinely believe that our attendances this season (paying customers) are on the up, but maybe the reported figures are a bit exaggerated.

 

 

[The Other Foot]

3 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I'm always sceptical about official attendance figures.

Some club's reported attendances will include all season ticket holders, even if they don't actually attend that match. (St Mirren ?).

And some clubs attendances will include freebies handed out to groups of schoolkids for 'grade 3' fixtures (St Mirren ?). BTW, Ive no issue with this, I'm all in favour of promoting new fans.

I do genuinely believe that our attendances this season (paying customers) are on the up, but maybe the reported figures are a bit exaggerated.

 

 

True, but maybe it’s the same in other countries too

[Gianfranco]

The championship is ahead of second divisions of similar sized and slightly larger nations. Scottish fitba is massive.

[Charles Stiles]

3 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Whilst this all makes great reading and there is no doubt attendances are up (well they definitely are at St. Mirren anyway), I assume we shouldn’t kid ourselves that these stats aren’t heavily skewed by 2 clubs. 

Totally and not helped by the number of times you play them. It's a pointless exercise.

[gannonball]

5 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

 Attendances are irrelevant.

Given the majority of clubs main income is from fans rather TV deals I would say attendances very relevant. It's probably one of the main indicators as to how a club is performing overall too.

[Billy Jean King]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

I'm always sceptical about official attendance figures.

Some club's reported attendances will include all season ticket holders, even if they don't actually attend that match. (St Mirren ?).

And some clubs attendances will include freebies handed out to groups of schoolkids for 'grade 3' fixtures (St Mirren ?). BTW, Ive no issue with this, I'm all in favour of promoting new fans.

I do genuinely believe that our attendances this season (paying customers) are on the up, but maybe the reported figures are a bit exaggerated.

 

 

Surely no club would over report given the consequences for tax etc. Season tickets are rightly included, the seat has been bought for every league game therefore isn't available to be sold to anyone else. Not sure many clubs are giving tickets away. At St Mirren there are deals for kids organisations and also a scheme for fans to purchase tickets for those that otherwise couldn't afford to attend but don't think there are many comps / freebies being dished out. Reduced price or full price a sale is a sale and will be counted.

[ATLIS]

6 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Whilst this all makes great reading and there is no doubt attendances are up (well they definitely are at St. Mirren anyway), I assume we shouldn’t kid ourselves that these stats aren’t heavily skewed by 2 clubs. 

If you take the top two out of every league, Scotland is still top. If you take Rangers and Celtic out I think we're something like 5th. It's not as skewed by them as you'd think

[RandomGuy.]

4 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

Also, attendance wise, I think Rangers and Celtic have peaked. If you are a glory hunter kid in Inverness/Dundee/Perth. You are more likely now to not bother with either of them and go for a man city/Chelsea/PSG etc. Just as accessible to the 'viewer' as Rangers or Celtic. That will translate to bums on seats in a few years. Conversely, other clubs become more appealing as time goes on.

This is the interesting thing, and nails an important point, for me. Feels like the amount of kids you see with Rangers tops on in Perth has absolutely plummeted in the past decade. I rarely even see anyone older wearing them either now, apart from a brief flurry after their league win.

Celtic feels more common but still not as much as i remember.

On the other hand Man U/Liverpool tops are common. I know theres a whole chunk of kids being brought up to support Saints + EPL side just like their parents. The bizarro timings of most EPL kick offs, for the bigger teams, means they can watch both every weekend too.

Not sure how much clubs should play into that, but if they could then a whole generation of fans could be retained who would previously be stolen by Rangers/Celtic.

[HibsFan]

4 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

That said, I can see a slightly different future. Hearts are showing how well you can do when you get the finances right. Retain assets, bring in better quality and grow the club. Yes, they are not miles ahead in terms of points, but in every other way, they are now in a wee section of their own (in my opinion) between the top two and the others.

They've finished third in the top flight once (once) in seven years.

They've had two European campaigns in ten years (humiliated in both).

They've not won a trophy in eleven years.

They've been relegated twice in that period too.

What the f**k are you seeing that the rest of us aren't?

Recency bias is a hell of a drug.

[Theyellowbox]

6 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

They've finished third in the top flight once (once) in seven years.

They've had two European campaigns in ten years (humiliated in both).

They've not won a trophy in eleven years.

They've been relegated twice in that period too.

What the f**k are you seeing that the rest of us aren't?

Recency bias is a hell of a drug.

I get you will have your green tinted view, but hate to break it to you, pretty much everyone outside your club will see Hearts as ahead of Hibs at the moment on and off the pitch. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Theyellowbox