Andrew Innes - Guilty of murder

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, TxRover said:

Unfortunately, it is…look at the number of people convicted and sentenced to death that are later cleared in the U.S…the police and prosecutors are entirely too willing to do things to get convictions, everywhere.

Was there not also a high profile wrongful conviction here as well? 

IIRC it turned out that the man who was convicted was actually innocent. Unfortunately he'd already been executed.

[ICTChris]

3 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Was there not also a high profile wrongful conviction here as well? 

IIRC it turned out that the man who was convicted was actually innocent. Unfortunately he'd already been executed.

I think the last execution in Britain where the executed really contested their guilt was James Hanratty, who was convicted of murdering a man by the A6 in Bedfordshire. He was also convicted of Raping and attempting to murder the victims girlfriend - she was shot and paralysed in the attack.

There was a huge campaign for many years after the 1962 execution, led by many notable campaigners. Eventually his conviction was referred to the court of Appeal. There was general expectation that he’d be posthumously exonerated but it turned out that DNA testing proved that he was 100% guilty. Awkward.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

The trial saw some of the most harrowing and disgusting evidence ever heard in a Scottish court.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

One of the pieces of evidence was that the seven year old girl who In es was found to have repeatedly raped was infected with chlamydia, which Innes was found to have.

The seven year old victim also said that Innes gave her money after he abused her, she was found with £2.10 in a purse she had. She said of the two murder victims “I should have saved them”.
[\spoiler]

You do feel for the jurors - they're just normal punters who got a letter through telling them to show up and walked into that.

I had to serve on one a while back for a noncing case and while it was nowhere near in the same ballpark as this one, there still were a couple of things that'll stay with me.

[Fullerene]

Colin Stagg spent a year in prison wrongly accused of killing Rachel Nickell who was taking her baby boy for a walk.

It was years later but they got a confession from the real killer.

[Thane of Cawdor]

43 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Was there not also a high profile wrongful conviction here as well? 

IIRC it turned out that the man who was convicted was actually innocent. Unfortunately he'd already been executed.

Probably the Timothy Evans case. I think the flaw in citing possible innocence as part of the case for abolition of capital punishment is that it implies that, where there is absolutely no question of guilt, then the death penalty could be justified.

https://genius.com/Ewan-maccoll-ballad-of-tim-evans-lyrics

 

[sophia]

Another one that disturbed me was the sad case of Stefan Kiszko who confessed to terrible crimes.

He didn't do it and but for timing, he'd have been hanged.

The fluid wasn't his and witnesses made stuff up for a laugh.

[carpetmonster]

3 hours ago, Fullerene said:

I know what you are saying but I doubt anyone who commits a crime like this even considers being caught or would be deterred by the death penalty.  Therefore it would only be an act of revenge.

He is not going to have a nice time in prison.  I suspect he will be isolated and have a lot of time to reflect on what he has done.

36 year minimum. 
 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/killer-andrew-innes-jailed-least-29148318

[Benjamin_Nevis]

He should be sentenced to reading the Facebook comments on the Tully's page about the case for the rest of his natural life. He'd probably prefer death tbh. 

[hk blues]

15 hours ago, ICTChris said:

One of the other things that this case raises is the issue of exploitation of women who move to this country from abroad.  Bennylyn had moved to the UK to marry her first husband, Jellica's father, who was 38 years older than her.  She lived with him in Bristol for around a year before leaving him and moving into emergency accomodation.  It's alleged that he assaulted her.  Those close to her say that she was very concerned about money and the ability to find work and survive with her children at this point.

I don't think anyone really knows why Bennylyn travelled from Bristol to Dundee with Innes, I think it's alleged that he offered her work.  It's also alleged that Innes wrote a 'scraper' to match him with South Asia women with young children on dating websites.  All women who matched his profile (mid to late 20s with young children) were then loaded onto a spreadsheet and rated.

Living in the Philippines (and married to a Filipina), and having lived in Hong Kong with a high Filipina population, I would throw in that for many who live in the poorer parts of the Philippines it's akin to winning the lottery to be able to find a foreign husband and move to his country.  They genuinely won't do any due diligence and in fact many have only communicated online with their future partner.  Of course, what happened to Bennylyn and Jellica is an extreme case but many will be living in abusive relationships and see no way out - their pride will often prevent them contacting family back home for help.  

Interestingly, there is the other side of the coin here where many older guys move here to be with their young wife and face a life of misery where the family take him for every penny and the wife often has a real boyfriend/husband in the background.  

[The Moonster]

This probably ties in with ICTChris' theory that we should just lock up anyone who looks dodgy but there can't be anyone on the planet who sees someone with that bald-on-top-ponytail-at-the-back hairstyle and doesn't have suspicions about the man sporting it. 

[moses1924]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

This probably ties in with ICTChris' theory that we should just lock up anyone who looks dodgy but there can't be anyone on the planet who sees someone with that bald-on-top-ponytail-at-the-back hairstyle and doesn't have suspicions about the man sporting it. 

i'm off for a hair cut now, thanks @The Moonster

[invergowrie arab]

I wonder if anything about his life in Japan was brought up in evidence. 

Apparently he had fathered a kid there but then left the country and came back to Scotland at very short notice.

[ICTChris]

2 hours ago, hk blues said:

Living in the Philippines (and married to a Filipina), and having lived in Hong Kong with a high Filipina population, I would throw in that for many who live in the poorer parts of the Philippines it's akin to winning the lottery to be able to find a foreign husband and move to his country.  They genuinely won't do any due diligence and in fact many have only communicated online with their future partner.  Of course, what happened to Bennylyn and Jellica is an extreme case but many will be living in abusive relationships and see no way out - their pride will often prevent them contacting family back home for help.  

 

Bennylyn had initially moved to the UK to marry a man called Lexington Burke, who was 38 years older than her.  She had met Burke on a dating website and he was Jellica's father.  The marriage broke down when she claimed he had assaulted her, she left his home and lived in a refuge in Bristol.  That's where she was when Innes contacted her.  It's alleged that Innes said he would give her a job in Dundee for £1000 a month and that's why she went to Dundee with Jellica and the other child.  Obviously she was in an extremely vulnerable position - in a foreign country, no income, two children.  

[Molotov]

2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I wonder if anything about his life in Japan was brought up in evidence. 

Apparently he had fathered a kid there but then left the country and came back to Scotland at very short notice.

He was deported from Japan rather than leaving under his own steam. Could be something happened out there that was very concerning.

[ICTChris]

3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I wonder if anything about his life in Japan was brought up in evidence. 

Apparently he had fathered a kid there but then left the country and came back to Scotland at very short notice.

He had three kids with his Japanese wife, apparently.  He seemingly was deported from Japan after leaving his job, I don't think they let foreigners stay when they don't have employment.

One of the most disturbing insights into Innes was that he said he murdered Bennylyn in a rage because she'd reminded him of his ex-wife and an ex-girlfriend and the 'hateful' things they'd done.  When asked what these hateful things were he said that his ex-wife had cut her hair when he didn't want her to.  That was his argument for having diminshed responsiblity, just unbelievable levels of narcissism.  Of course, it's highly likely that isn't what happened at all and he changed his story several times as the truth is probably too hard even for him to repeat.

[Hedgecutter]

You know it's bad when the jurors are all given jury duty exemptions for life.

[Molotov]

There are some really sick individuals out there.

I see that they are reporting that the husband shot and killed his wife and daughter at that private school. More to follow from police this afternoon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64544884

What possesses men to have samurai swords and guns in the house?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Molotov

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

4 hours ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

He should be sentenced to reading the Facebook comments on the Tully's page about the case for the rest of his natural life. He'd probably prefer death tbh. 

No doubt the commenters that have been very vocal in their concern for the safety of prisoners in the last few weeks are now suddenly back to their old stance of hoping that prisoners are raped and assaulted.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Sherrif John Bunnell

[Molotov]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

Someone who lives in the country or a farmer might have a need to have a firearm but I wouldn't be comfortable having them in my house.  I work with someone who shoots as a hobby and he has a gun cabinet in his urban house.  Wouldn't be me!

 

I’ve friends and relatives who have gun licenses. One of my best pals was an international “shooter” for N. Ireland. 
Another relative has a shotgun license and keeps equipment at home but lives with a partner who I would class as “unstable”. 

Wouldn’t be me either. 

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

 Obviously she was in an extremely vulnerable position - in a foreign country, no income, two children.  

Which was my point - she found herself in such a vulnerable position and obviously was unable to turn to family back home for whatever reason (money no doubt was tight for both her and her family back home).  Unfortunately, tragically in her case, the red flags of moving to a foreign country to marry a man 38 years older than her weren't enough to prevent her being at the mercy of, apparently, not 1 but 2 evil men in succession. 

For the avoidance of doubt - I AM NOT victim blaming, just pointing out how people living in a certain environment are easy prey for those predators who live amongst us.