Pie Of The Month Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) More games being added to the Nations League. Top 2 in each League A group (the league Scotland are in and England are definitely not in) will go into quarter finals for the Nations League finals and 3rd place in Leagues A and B will go into a promotion/relegation playoff with 2nd place in League B and C for promotion/relegation. 6 team qualifying groups for the Euros and World Cup have been scrapped and replaced with 12 groups of 4 or 5 teams. https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/027d-1727b3b1e199-61019185e2c8-1000--new-formats-for-uefa-men-s-national-team-competitions-app/ Edited January 25, 2023 by Pie Of The Month 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latapythelegend Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Quite like that actually 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I think: Teams in pots 2-4 who are involved in the March promotion/relegation playoffs (i.e., league B 2nd place in pot 2, league B 3rd place in pot 3, and league C 2nd place in pot 4) would need to be drawn into 4 team groups, teams in pot 1 who are involved in the March relegation playoffs (i.e., league A 3rd place), would need to be drawn into 5 team groups. The top 8 teams would be playing QFs in March with the possibility of a SF/F in June. The latter would necessitate going into a 4 team group, so there would need to be an “either/or” pair with the winning team from one of the QFs going into the 4 team group and the loser going into the 5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Example based on the recent UNL: League A QFs: Croatia v Portugal Spain v Denmark Italy v Belgium Netherlands v Hungary Relegated to league B: Austria, Czech Republic, England, Wales Promoted to league A: Scotland, Israel, Bosnia, Serbia League A/B playoffs: France v Ukraine Switzerland v Iceland Germany v Finland Poland v Norway Relegated to league C Armenia, Russia, Romania, Sweden Promoted to league B Georgia, Greece, Turkey, Kazakhstan League B/C promotion playoffs: Slovenia v Bulgaria Ireland v Kosovo Albania v Azerbaijan Montenegro v Luxembourg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I think the changes are fine, but it's not clear how it's going to work for the World Cup qualifying. They've said that the 12 group winners will automatically qualify, while runners-up will either qualify directly or go into the play-offs, and it also implies that there is no longer a Nations League route for the WC. However, given that Europe has 16 spots for the World Cup, that would leave 12 teams playing off for 4 places. Does that mean that the 4 best runners-up might get a bye to a final, and the other 8 runners-up will play in a semi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 18 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I think the changes are fine, but it's not clear how it's going to work for the World Cup qualifying. They've said that the 12 group winners will automatically qualify, while runners-up will either qualify directly or go into the play-offs, and it also implies that there is no longer a Nations League route for the WC. However, given that Europe has 16 spots for the World Cup, that would leave 12 teams playing off for 4 places. Does that mean that the 4 best runners-up might get a bye to a final, and the other 8 runners-up will play in a semi? It's a "We'll make it up as we go along" knowing UEFA Reading Bert's forums a few think it will be 4 UNL + 12 RU for the World Cup Playoffs, but there's confusion over fitting 12 matches into the schedule for WC/Euro Qualifying with this new Quarter Final stage of the Nations League 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 hours ago, craigkillie said: I think the changes are fine, but it's not clear how it's going to work for the World Cup qualifying. They've said that the 12 group winners will automatically qualify, while runners-up will either qualify directly or go into the play-offs, and it also implies that there is no longer a Nations League route for the WC. However, given that Europe has 16 spots for the World Cup, that would leave 12 teams playing off for 4 places. Does that mean that the 4 best runners-up might get a bye to a final, and the other 8 runners-up will play in a semi? It’ll probably be: WC: - 12 winners qualify automatically - 12 runners up + 4 best remaining UNL teams form 4 playoff paths Euros: - 12 winners qualify automatically - X automatic host slots - (9-X) best runners up qualify automatically. - 3 UNL playoff paths formed using the current system 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) The UEFA article says "The group-winners of the European Qualifiers will qualify directly for the UEFA EURO or the FIFA World Cup, whereas the second-placed teams will either qualify directly or participate in play-off matches (together with UEFA Nations League teams for qualification to the UEFA EURO)." The bolded part suggests to me that there won't be Nations League teams involved in the World Cup play-offs. Edited January 26, 2023 by craigkillie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I don't hate the changes, but I'm not convinced the Nations League really needed touching. For once they'd brought in something that was actually good for international football (despite what some fans of League A teams, or specific League B teams might say) but every year they've fucked about with it. It will add more meaning to every game, although I'm not convinced there's much of a need for that in a 4-team group playing just 6 games. Big question like others have said is what it really means in full for the main qualifiers. My question would be how seeding works for the draws given there's now at most 5 teams in groups, so presumably the 6 pot system is dead. With so many teams needing to be in a specific sized group, do we then have two seeding "paths". f**k knows. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) We'll see in time how the seeding works in practice with some teams needing to be placed in four team groups, but my initial thought is it's likely to be good thing for us. More groups meaning more teams in each pot makes it easier for us to stay in Pot 2, there's a slightly better chance of getting a beatable Pot 1 side, and Pot 3 will in turn be weaker through the top two pots being larger. For the 2024 draw the pots were as follows: 1 - Netherlands, Croatia, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, Belgium, Hungary, Switzerland, Poland 2 - France, Austria, Czech Republic, England, Wales, Israel, Bosnia, Serbia, Scotland, Finland 3 - Ukraine, Iceland, Norway, Slovenia, Ireland, Albania, Montenegro, Romania, Sweden, Armenia Expanding the pots to 12 teams you'd have had France & Austria to Pot 1 Ukraine, Iceland, Norway and Slovenia to Pot 2, then the additions to Pot 3 would be Georgia, Greece, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. There could still be some very tricky draws, and obviously there's the significant caveat that you're losing automatic Euros qualification for runners-up, but the chances of getting an easier draw would increase considerably with the best sides in Pot 3 moving up. Edited January 26, 2023 by Dunning1874 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 52 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: We'll see in time how the seeding works in practice with some teams needing to be placed in four team groups, but my initial thought is it's likely to be good thing for us. More groups meaning more teams in each pot makes it easier for us to stay in Pot 2, there's a slightly better chance of getting a beatable Pot 1 side, and Pot 3 will in turn be weaker through the top two pots being larger. For the 2024 draw the pots were as follows: 1 - Netherlands, Croatia, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, Belgium, Hungary, Switzerland, Poland 2 - France, Austria, Czech Republic, England, Wales, Israel, Bosnia, Serbia, Scotland, Finland 3 - Ukraine, Iceland, Norway, Slovenia, Ireland, Albania, Montenegro, Romania, Sweden, Armenia Expanding the pots to 12 teams you'd have had France & Austria to Pot 1 Ukraine, Iceland, Norway and Slovenia to Pot 2, then the additions to Pot 3 would be Georgia, Greece, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. There could still be some very tricky draws, and obviously there's the significant caveat that you're losing automatic Euros qualification for runners-up, but the chances of getting an easier draw would increase considerably with the best sides in Pot 3 moving up. Just thought I'd continue this down the pots out of interest. Euro qualifier pots (done on UNL ranking) Pot 1- Netherlands, Croatia, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, Belgium, Hungary, Switzerland, Poland, France, Austria Pot 2 -Czech Republic, England, Wales, Israel, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Scotland, Finland, Ukraine, Iceland, Norway, Slovenia Pot 3 -Ireland, Albania, Montenegro, Romania, Sweden, Armenia, Georgia, Greece, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan Pot 4 -Kosovo, Bulgaria, Faroe Islands, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Belarus, Lithuania, Gibraltar, Estonia, Latvia Pot 5 - Moldova, Malta, Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein Germany ranked 10th would be pot 1 if not hosting, Russia are ranked 32nd so would be pot 3 if reinstated World Cup qualifier pots (done on FIFA rankings although there was talk of switching to UNL ranking) Pot 1 - France, Belgium, England, Netherlands, Croatia, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Poland Pot 2 - Sweden, Ukraine, Wales, Serbia, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, Scotland, Norway, Turkey, Ireland, Greece Pot 3 - Romania, Slovakia, Finland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Slovenia, Iceland, North Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Israel Pot 4 - Georgia, Luxembourg, Armenia, Belarus, Kosovo, Estonia, Cyprus, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Lithuania Pot 5 - Andorra, Malta, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, San Marino Russia ranked 18th so would be pot 2 if reinstated. Other than it taking away the 2nd automatic qualifying spot for the Euros I think this could work out well for countries like Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I don’t think it’s great for our chances of making the Euros, tbh. At the moment our best bet is to get into pot 2 and finish 2nd in our group. That’s what we are hoping will happen for euro 2024 but drawing the best team in pot 3 makes life difficult, but we’ve still got the playoffs as a fallback option. Under the new system we are likely relying on a playoff nearly every time unless we are lucky enough to draw an Austria or a Hungary as our pot 1 side and manage to go ahead and top the group. Ultimately the aim is the same thing, finish in the top (24 - X) teams in qualifying, with X being the number of hosts qualifying automatically. But my view is that the new system adds to the “randomness” of the qualifying which in turn makes it more likely that genuine top 24 sides (which we are, IMO) will miss out. Assuming only one automatic qualifier it will likely be: - 1 host - 12 qualifying group winners - 6 best runners up - 20 teams in 5 playoff paths (Including 6 remaining runners up + UNL league group winners + next best UNL teams if there are spots to fill) For each extra automatic host, reduce the number of runner up who qualify by 2 and add an additional playoff path. So if you had 4 hosts, only them plus the 12 winners qualify automatically but you’d have 8 playoff paths with 32 teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I really don’t like the huge increase of teams competing across groups. Now the case in the UNL, WC/Euros qualifiers and the Euros tournament itself. Some talk the 2026 World Cup might even end up there too to complete the clean sweep. If six runners-up qualify automatically and six don’t, there’ll be at least one or two every time who get a lucky draw from Pots 3 & 4 which takes them to a finals. I think luck of the draw is fine within your own group, there’s really no other way of doing it, but a Pot 2 team could based on current standings face Sweden and Slovakia, or Luxembourg and Gibraltar. Getting to a finals because you pumped Gibraltar twice seems a weird way of doing it. It’s a double win from the draw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Just looking ahead in the international calendar and there's still no mention of when the 24/25 Nations League draw will be. Also, if the Nations League matches will be played from September to November 2024 (league phase) then I suppose the March 2024 camp will just have to be filled with friendlies as there isn't a Nations League Finals to fill that space on the calendar. So 2024 will look something like this for Scotland: Mar-24: Friendlies Jun-24: Euro 2024/Friendlies Sep-24: 24/25 Nations League Oct-24: 24/25 Nations League Nov-24: 24/25 Nations League 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) I suspect the 2024 Nations League draw will be after the March fixtures since there's League C/D relegation playoffs being played then alongside the euro 2024 playoffs. They could just do the draw before then with "Playoff winner 1 and 2" and "Playoff loser 1 and 2" in placed in some of the groups in Leagues C and D but with Lithuania and Belarus being involved when they have winter restrictions and Gibraltar and Cyprus involved when they have excessive travel restrictions it would probably just be easier to do it afterwards. Edited August 8, 2023 by Pie Of The Month 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince sinclair Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: Just looking ahead in the international calendar and there's still no mention of when the 24/25 Nations League draw will be. Also, if the Nations League matches will be played from September to November 2024 (league phase) then I suppose the March 2024 camp will just have to be filled with friendlies as there isn't a Nations League Finals to fill that space on the calendar. So 2024 will look something like this for Scotland: Mar-24: Friendlies Jun-24: Euro 2024/Friendlies Sep-24: 24/25 Nations League Oct-24: 24/25 Nations League Nov-24: 24/25 Nations League Matchday 1 and 2 - 2nd to 10th Sept 3 and 4 - 7th- 15th Oct 5 and 6 - 11th - 19th Nov 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 9 hours ago, 2426255 said: Just looking ahead in the international calendar and there's still no mention of when the 24/25 Nations League draw will be. Also, if the Nations League matches will be played from September to November 2024 (league phase) then I suppose the March 2024 camp will just have to be filled with friendlies as there isn't a Nations League Finals to fill that space on the calendar. So 2024 will look something like this for Scotland: Mar-24: Friendlies Jun-24: Euro 2024/Friendlies Sep-24: 24/25 Nations League Oct-24: 24/25 Nations League Nov-24: 24/25 Nations League Let’s not count our chickens before they’ve hatched. There’s a chance that March 2024 will be Euros playoffs for us. Of course the recent fortuitous results have us well on course to qualify outright so the hope will be that we can just play a couple of friendlies to work on tactics for the main tournament and maybe give some younger guys a shot to stake their name for the squad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 08/08/2023 at 20:20, Donathan said: Let’s not count our chickens before they’ve hatched. There’s a chance that March 2024 will be Euros playoffs for us. I had forgotten we have a playoff in our back pocket truth be told m8. That explains the March camp better so cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted September 26, 2023 Author Share Posted September 26, 2023 Nations League draw confirmed as 8th February showing my guesswork of it being after the March games to be completely wrong. https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/0285-191247fad23e-824e6cf31d48-1000--warsaw-to-host-2024-uefa-super-cup/ Quote The UEFA Executive Committee decided to relocate the 2024 UEFA Congress from Madrid to Paris on 8 February 2024. The 2024/25 UEFA Nations League group stage draw will also be moved to the French capital city on the same day. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 4 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said: Nations League draw confirmed as 8th February showing my guesswork of it being after the March games to be completely wrong. https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/0285-191247fad23e-824e6cf31d48-1000--warsaw-to-host-2024-uefa-super-cup/ AFAIK the seeding pots are completely fixed based on the last nations league campaign and no results between now and February will change them. Might as well do the draw tomorrow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.