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meadowbank thistle V Heart of Midlothian


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6 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Neilson is a meticulous tactician who is very flexible and pragmatic with his approach. He regularly sets up to counter specific opposition threats, especially in away matches where the opposition will attack Hearts more. Even in-game yesterday, we saw him subbing Ginelly on at right wing back as a counter to Livi having given left back Penrice free reign to bomb on. Ginelly both had the pace to match Penrice's forward runs and the attacking mentality to try and force Penrice onto the back foot. It successfully neutralised Penrice (scored twice in our last league match) who'd been growing increasingly influential for Livi until then. Neilson is always making these little tweaks. He got his tactics spot on yesterday and would've got the win had Oda and Kuol not fluffed their lines. Hearts fans just going "pitch" are doing their own manager a disservice.

As for Hearts playing a shorter passing, possession-based build up, of course Neilson instructs that regularly especially in home matches. It's no doubt his preferred strategy and we did still see a couple of glimpses of it yesterday. He knows, though, that Livi can be hard to play that style against. The last Tynecastle match between the sides saw Livi disrupt Hearts midfield build up expertly. Then at Almondvale, where opponents play more conservatively, Livi push even harder for that midfield dominance.

You're mistaking folk saying the game is made worse by it being on a duff pitch for folk blaming it for the tactics or way we approached the game.  

I just don't enjoy watching games on that surface, cause the ball clanks around at knee height half the game.

 

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3 hours ago, hoobahabba said:

Well yesterday’s approach was certainly much more direct than we’ve seen from other teams who have not said a word about the pitch. I think hearts fans and players (Humphrys’ tweet) are taking their cue from Neilson who decided to be vocal in his disdain for the pitch before and after the game. Possibly because he knew he was going try to fight fire with fire instead of “superior” football. Easier to blame the pitch for a shit game of football than your own setup. 
 

I’ll freely admit that our style of play frequently results scrappy contests like the one you saw yesterday. That’s what we have to do to succeed in this league with our budget. Your club and fans are making a meal of the pitch.

Away from P&B I don't know a single non-Livi fan who actually  likes the pitch at Almondvale, and most would agree it gives the home team an, admittedly minor, advantage - but most people also accept that there are good reasons for Livi having one, and that opposition teams just need to get on with it. I'm not convinced Hearts' fans are any more vocal about that (other than on this thread obviously!) than anyone else.

But the fact that we played so directly yesterday (and there's no denying we did), even though that's most definitely not how we've generally played this season, does suggest that the Hearts management have a genuine  - even if potentially erroneous - belief that the astro is not conducive to our usual passing game. Plus, to be fair, the St Mirren games made it crystal clear that we are not good enough to play against a really well organised press of the sort both they and Livi are so good at.

TBH, I've been quite pleased on this thread to see a lack of any 'how the hell are we dropping points to a side like Livingston' style bollocks. Hearts' fans, I am forced to admit, have more of a reputation than most other teams for a depressing tendency to come over all Billy Big Baws at the first sniff of success. It's a relief to see that - obvious piss-taking aside - P&B jambos at least seem to recognise that a point away at a good level Premiership rival is a decent result.

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3 hours ago, lennyzer0 said:

Away from P&B I don't know a single non-Livi fan who actually  likes the pitch at Almondvale, and most would agree it gives the home team an, admittedly minor, advantage - but most people also accept that there are good reasons for Livi having one, and that opposition teams just need to get on with it. I'm not convinced Hearts' fans are any more vocal about that (other than on this thread obviously!) than anyone else.

This is pretty much my view. There's opposition fans who think Livi would get relegated with a grass pitch, and there's Livi fans who think it doesn't hold an advantage. The truths probably in the middle

TBH my main gripe with comments is when folk presume Killie's relegation presented a chance to vote on it, ignoring the three other leagues in Scotland. 

Onto the game, a pretty turgid watch. With both midfields cancelling each other out, and the wind playing havoc, the game seemed incredibly end to end. 

Most Livi players played well enough, particularly the back line. For Hearts, Rowes looked a class act alongside Sibbick, Shankland is wasted playing deeper against such a stuffy defence, Cochrane was fairly quiet by his standards and Kio was anonymous. Oda looks well off the pace, but it's hard to judge on his first game. An odd game for Forrest not to start or come on earlier, given he'd be used to the pitch at least

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I don't get the argument of the pitch giving us an advantage. If there was a huge advantage by having a plastic pitch then wouldn't Killie, Hamilton etc be doing better than they are? Also, why shouldn't Livi have an advantage? Every other side in the league has a bigger budget than Livi....that's an advantage. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts Hibs, Aberdeen, St Mirren etc all have international quality players...that's an advantage. Many other teams have better training and fitness facilities than Livi...that's an advantage. All teams have some sort of advantage at home as they are used to the surroundings etc. 

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6 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I don't get the argument of the pitch giving us an advantage. If there was a huge advantage by having a plastic pitch then wouldn't Killie, Hamilton etc be doing better than they are? Also, why shouldn't Livi have an advantage? Every other side in the league has a bigger budget than Livi....that's an advantage. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts Hibs, Aberdeen, St Mirren etc all have international quality players...that's an advantage. Many other teams have better training and fitness facilities than Livi...that's an advantage. All teams have some sort of advantage at home as they are used to the surroundings etc. 

Saying it gives us an advantage isn't the same as saying we shouldn't have one. The fact we're doing well in relation to Killie and Hamilton etc is down to other factors (recruitment etc). Essentially the pitch helps give us home advantage, which is our right, but it doesn't keep us in the league on it's own

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12 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

Saying it gives us an advantage isn't the same as saying we shouldn't have one. The fact we're doing well in relation to Killie and Hamilton etc is down to other factors (recruitment etc). Essentially the pitch helps give us home advantage, which is our right, but it doesn't keep us in the league on it's own

I get that but the stuff I've seen posted by opposition fans makes it sound like we're only 4th BECAUSE of the plastic pitch

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1 hour ago, The Wrong Car said:

This is pretty much my view. There's opposition fans who think Livi would get relegated with a grass pitch, and there's Livi fans who think it doesn't hold an advantage. The truths probably in the middle

TBH my main gripe with comments is when folk presume Killie's relegation presented a chance to vote on it, ignoring the three other leagues in Scotland. 

Onto the game, a pretty turgid watch. With both midfields cancelling each other out, and the wind playing havoc, the game seemed incredibly end to end. 

Most Livi players played well enough, particularly the back line. For Hearts, Rowes looked a class act alongside Sibbick, Shankland is wasted playing deeper against such a stuffy defence, Cochrane was fairly quiet by his standards and Kio was anonymous. Oda looks well off the pace, but it's hard to judge on his first game. An odd game for Forrest not to start or come on earlier, given he'd be used to the pitch at least

Course there is, but they're not very knowledgeable of Livi, and just lazily put all our success down to playing on a plastic pitch. 

57 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I don't get the argument of the pitch giving us an advantage. If there was a huge advantage by having a plastic pitch then wouldn't Killie, Hamilton etc be doing better than they are? Also, why shouldn't Livi have an advantage? Every other side in the league has a bigger budget than Livi....that's an advantage. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts Hibs, Aberdeen, St Mirren etc all have international quality players...that's an advantage. Many other teams have better training and fitness facilities than Livi...that's an advantage. All teams have some sort of advantage at home as they are used to the surroundings etc. 

Exactly, all teams have an advantage playing at home, in familiar surroundings, knowing their own pitch better than visiting teams, irrespective of what the pitch is made of. It's just lazy anti plastic pitch propaganda.

35 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I get that but the stuff I've seen posted by opposition fans makes it sound like we're only 4th BECAUSE of the plastic pitch

That's because they're morons.

We've just won our last 2 away games on grass pitches, and have come close to winning at Ibrox and Tynecastle, conceding in injury time to come away with draws, so we're doing no bad playing away on grass pitches.

 We've 18pts at Home & 14 pts Away (one being Killie so maybe that doesn't count):unsure:, can't be arsed checking but i'd think most teams win most of their pts at home, whether playing on grass or plastic pitches.

I've read the same nonsense said we wouldn't be in the top flight without a plastic pitch, even though our pitch was grass when we finished 2nd in the Championship and got promoted through the play offs.

 

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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11 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I get that but the stuff I've seen posted by opposition fans makes it sound like we're only 4th BECAUSE of the plastic pitch

Has anyone actually said this?

Livi are 4th because Martindale sets up well and are probably one of the hardest teams to beat in the league.

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1 hour ago, Empty It said:

Has anyone actually said this?

Livi are 4th because Martindale sets up well and are probably one of the hardest teams to beat in the league.

I was just about to say this. I don't dislike the pitch because Livingston have an unfair advantage and I'm not sure anyone, on this thread at least, has said so.  I don't like it because the pitch isn't a particularly good one and it's not enjoyable to watch games on. If fans are spending near enough £30 for a game, they are within their rights to say they think it's not enjoyable.

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15 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I get that but the stuff I've seen posted by opposition fans makes it sound like we're only 4th BECAUSE of the plastic pitch

If they are, then they're talking out their arses.

Livi are a very effective team, with some players who can play a bit, and they all do what they do very well. Martindale deserves huge credits, and they're clearly 4th on merit.

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17 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Course there is, but they're not very knowledgeable of Livi, and just lazily put all our success down to playing on a plastic pitch. 

I notice this, aye. First thing I should be clear on is that it's not at all a big deal and often the folk who don't have a clue about Livi's team don't even understand their own team very well.

With Livi its largely down to (lack of) media coverage. Being the last match shown on Sportscene every week, that sort of thing. Folk just aren't going to know anything about Livi's actual team on the park. Nouble is the only player the media ever mentions and he's not even played that much for us this season.

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12 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I notice this, aye. First thing I should be clear on is that it's not at all a big deal and often the folk who don't have a clue about Livi's team don't even understand their own team very well.

With Livi its largely down to (lack of) media coverage. Being the last match shown on Sportscene every week, that sort of thing. Folk just aren't going to know anything about Livi's actual team on the park. Nouble is the only player the media ever mentions and he's not even played that much for us this season.

Prob cause he's scored against Sevco, home and away.

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4 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

I was just about to say this. I don't dislike the pitch because Livingston have an unfair advantage and I'm not sure anyone, on this thread at least, has said so.  I don't like it because the pitch isn't a particularly good one and it's not enjoyable to watch games on. If fans are spending near enough £30 for a game, they are within their rights to say they think it's not enjoyable.

Fair comment in the summer, but during the winter months grass pitches aren't exactly bowling greens, conducive to good passing football being zipped about the pitch. We played St Johnstone in our last away game and their pitch was pretty bad, just look at Hampden's, it got pelters. The argument against plastic pitches really falls apart when you get to this time of the season comparing it against grass pitches.

Can't remember who mentioned ours being sticky, but didn't Hearts keep their grass pitch as long as possible when playing the erse cheeks, to hamper their passing game on the pitch, sure Alloa narrowed theirs to try and gain an advantage too, all within the rules of the game. All's fair in love and war when playing certain teams that are better than you and you do what you can to even the playing field, or not, in this case speaking literally.

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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10 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

I was just about to say this. I don't dislike the pitch because Livingston have an unfair advantage and I'm not sure anyone, on this thread at least, has said so.  I don't like it because the pitch isn't a particularly good one and it's not enjoyable to watch games on. If fans are spending near enough £30 for a game, they are within their rights to say they think it's not enjoyable.

 

11 hours ago, Empty It said:

Has anyone actually said this?

Livi are 4th because Martindale sets up well and are probably one of the hardest teams to beat in the league.

I should have said, it wasn't on here I was seeing it posted...some proper yer da stuff on facebook and twitter

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