Cove vs Raith, 14/1/23

[SirJimmyofNic]

18 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Actually, we’re just very slightly above average on that. Got a wee bit of time on me hands this afternoon, so ran through the, checks notes, 29 goals we’ve conceded this year in the Championship and categorized them. Used categories of Penalty, Set Piece, Open Play, Counter Attack and Defensive Cock-Up. Some are judgement calls, and for the Set Piece I counted goals that resulted from some ping-pong from the set piece as well as directly.

Now, the average percentage of goals scored from set pieces is between 25% and 33% in most leagues. We’ve allowed 34%. From open play, we allow 38%, 14% penalties, 10% counter and 3% whoopsie.

Some boy Tx, what's that mean in goals

[stevoraith]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

 Yes, we lack great (or even good) options, but we HAVE to develop some of those bench players to give us options if we can’t gong to sign players.

It doesn’t work like that though. 
 

We need to develop them because they are significantly weaker than what we have in our first choice eleven. 
So by definition giving them game time makes us weaker. 
 

Maybe if we could get to the stage in games where we were two or three goals to the good we could think about bringing these guys on to give them experience but we don't so we’d be sacrificing results today to maybe improve our options tomorrow- but with the risk that sacrificing todays performances means we play in league one tomorrow. 
 

It’s not possible. 
 

Which is why the preferred option is to send the guys out on loan to gain experience. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by stevoraith

[TxRover]

40 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Some boy Tx, what's that mean in goals

10 goals from set piece, 11 from open play, 3 from counter, 4 from penalties and 1 from aw s**t.

[roverthemoon]

Even a half fit Gullane is far superior to Big John.  There’s no debate. If we’re defending a lead than Frederiksen should stay on the bench. Would much rather have a player that can hold play up, win fouls and generally slow the play. That’s not big John.  Throw him on if we need an equaliser. Otherwise keep him off.

 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 hours ago, renton said:

Ross, Stanton and Ngwenya

Ian Murray spoke about them in positive terms in his interview.

[TxRover]

33 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Even a half fit Gullane is far superior to Big John.  There’s no debate. If we’re defending a lead than Frederiksen should stay on the bench. Would much rather have a player that can hold play up, win fouls and generally slow the play. That’s not big John.  Throw him on if we need an equaliser. Otherwise keep him off.

 

How about an out for the match Gullan? If we push players too hard, and ignore their aches and issues, we lose them for a game or games. Gullan apparently is not capable of playing a full match right now, so who replaces him when he needs subbed off? Your choices are Frederiksen, Mitchell, McBride, Arnott and (perhaps) Mahady. If Vaughan needs to be subbed off, who replaces him? The reality is we don’t have acceptable choices, so we have to make do…so what’s (or who’s) the answer?

[Scottydog]

Going by updates and 2nd hand reports another disappointment and a seemingly preventable one at that.

Not at this one as I was at work about 40 miles NE of Cove so I'm really  in no position to comment, what I will say though it sounds very similar to our last league outing at Hamilton on the 2nd where we toiled to put away an incredibly poor side that really were there for the taking. The only difference being that Hamilton almost got their late equaliser, Cove actually did.

Other than the reported poor game management, it'd be interesting to hear from those who were there who was up to muster and who didn't turn up. Hard to tell going on updates but it seemed Vaughan had a good game, Gullan, Spencer and Lang had positive mentions but that was about it, any more insight?

[Hank Scorpio]

4 minutes ago, Scottydog said:

Going by updates and 2nd hand reports another disappointment and a seemingly preventable one at that.

Not at this one as I was at work about 40 miles NE of Cove so I'm really  in no position to comment, what I will say though it sounds very similar to our last league outing at Hamilton on the 2nd where we toiled to put away an incredibly poor side that really were there for the taking. The only difference being that Hamilton almost got their late equaliser, Cove actually did.

Other than the reported poor game management, it'd be interesting to hear from those who were there who was up to muster and who didn't turn up. Hard to tell going on updates but it seemed Vaughan had a good game, Gullan, Spencer and Lang had positive mentions but that was about it, any more insight?

Easton going off was a big factor, IMO. Probably the MoM until he went off. Was attracting so much attention and so many fouls. Held onto the ball, took his goal well and was generally a nuisance. Cove players really targeted him and I think he ended up going off from a bad tackle in the end. 

[roverthemoon]

13 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Gullan apparently is not capable of playing a full match right now, so who replaces him when he needs subbed off?

If we’re leading then it’s not John F. Someone above made the comparison with Hamilton. Against them we brought on McBride and Connell from memory who held the ball up well and helped us see out the win - even though a lot of the crowd were  shouting for Frederiksen. Compare that to today when we shipped 2 points in injury time because we didn’t hold the ball up. 
 

I love a cult figure as much as the rest of the support , but this season we are in a bit of a battle to not get dragged into the relegation fight. We can’t afford the luxury of a cult figure at the moment. 

 

[TxRover]

15 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

If we’re leading then it’s not John F. Someone above made the comparison with Hamilton. Against them we brought on McBride and Connell from memory who held the ball up well and helped us see out the win - even though a lot of the crowd were  shouting for Frederiksen. Compare that to today when we shipped 2 points in injury time because we didn’t hold the ball up. 
 

I love a cult figure as much as the rest of the support , but this season we are in a bit of a battle to not get dragged into the relegation fight. We can’t afford the luxury of a cult figure at the moment. 

 

OK, McBride for Gullan, fine. Now Vaughan has to go off…Mitchell OK? Or, if he’s not experienced enough the only option is John…cause Mahady and Arnott certainty aren’t experienced enough then.

We’re paying the price for IM’s willingness to let the BoD cut costs and make him run with a thin squad. Connell, for all his flaws, was a grafter who worked hard for 70-90 minutes, soaking up opponents time and effort and helping our other players be better. He now gone, for better or worse, and we’re s**t outta luck if we get another injury or two.

Proposal: If we can get Connell for a reasonable price, we sign the lad until May, unless we have a genuine striker loanee/signing coming in. We need the body, he knows the team and the team knows him. I don’t love Connell, but the lad is a fighter.

Second Proposal: We have to start getting some of these bench players some playing time. It’s all good and well to say they aren’t ready, then get them out on loan and replace them here…oh, we don’t have the money for that…then play them! We have to decide if we are signing Mitchell, Young, Mahady and Masson before years end…how the feck do we know if we don’t play them or loan them. We had Mitchell in a perfect loan for him, and we had to recall him…Arnott, not so much, but we recalled him too. Both have no option for another loan, so let’s find out what we’ve got.

Heres the reality, this team, without reinforcements , isn’t making the promotion playoffs. This team has exactly one signed defender for next year…one signed keeper…and two signed forwards…plus a bunch of midfielders. We need to make some decisions and we need to learn about some possible assets. If there’s no money to expand the roster, it’s time.

Are we safe enough to do that in any game, no…but if we’re down two or three, and even if we’re up one or two, it may be time to take some chances. Just my $0.02.

[SirJimmyofNic]

The young guys did well on Wednesday albeit against a weak QP, but Gullan for the meantime needs to be on the bench and brought on for the last 30mins for either Mitchell or McBride I'm guessing that some of these young boys will look to go elsewhere when their contracts are up due to just making up numbers, and if thing dont change on the financial side it'll be a hybrid for next season anyway 

[McGuigan1978]

6 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Every single sub made us significantly weaker. Making them even earlier would’ve left us with a weaker team for a longer period of time. The lack of depth in the squad is shafting us every single week, we need more bodies but have zero money. 

Didn’t see the game today, but this is absolutely our issue just now. A starting eleven that’s okayish, but a bench that’s a disaster. 

Couple of boys to my left at the Dundee game kept screaming at Ian Murray to change things for ages, and when I turned round and asked them exactly what sub he should make to improve us, they just shrugged and said they didn’t know, which sums things up. 

The squad is gossamer thin, and I doubt it’ll be any different at the end of January. 

[CountryBumpkin]

1 hour ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Didn’t see the game today, but this is absolutely our issue just now. A starting eleven that’s okayish, but a bench that’s a disaster. 

Couple of boys to my left at the Dundee game kept screaming at Ian Murray to change things for ages, and when I turned round and asked them exactly what sub he should make to improve us, they just shrugged and said they didn’t know, which sums things up. 

The squad is gossamer thin, and I doubt it’ll be any different at the end of January. 

Pretty much this. McBride hasn't offered much coming on, Frederiksen even less so, cost us today with a stupid hit from 40 yards that results in a punt up the pitch and a corner. If he was released on Monday no one would really have much to say that was able to be backed up with proof. 

[CALDERON]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect to see Big John for a while

[Mr.Reeee]

Can't believe that IM is using poor game management to scapegoat a striker who wasn't included after a goal and a good performance mid week. He clearly came on to help with defensive headers more than add a threat up top however as someone who I presume made the move 1000s of miles from his home to, presumably, play the game he loves for modest renumeration can you blame him for taking on a feasible shot with the keeper of the line. His thought process was probably something like "fuk me I pan my c**t in and score on weds and I'm still not in contention, I'm having a go here cos if I score maybe I force the managers hand".

Gullan, for me anyway, offered more as a wide forward in midweek than he does as a striker. He certainly worked a lot harder. Personally I would have dropped Gullan and started with John with the logic 2 fold if he does score he wins by giving the fans what they want and by possibly the team winning, if he doesn't score then he justified to hook him as early as half time and say to all those clamouring for his inclusion "see, this is why I dinnae play him" possibly following up by blowing a childish raspberry. I also however would have introduced Mitchell as my first sub hooking Gullan and not Easton (unless it wad enforced by a knock as suggested elsewhere in the thread) to go up top and stretch play with his pace.

I genuinely don't think our young players are all that bad and I think the squad we have is comfortably where a Rovers squad should be which is somewhere between 3rd and 7th in the championship.

[CALDERON]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Reeee said:

Can't believe that IM is using poor game management to scapegoat a striker who wasn't included after a goal and a good performance mid week. He clearly came on to help with defensive headers more than add a threat up top however as someone who I presume made the move 1000s of miles from his home to, presumably, play the game he loves for modest renumeration can you blame him for taking on a feasible shot with the keeper of the line. His thought process was probably something like "fuk me I pan my c**t in and score on weds and I'm still not in contention, I'm having a go here cos if I score maybe I force the managers hand".

Gullan, for me anyway, offered more as a wide forward in midweek than he does as a striker. He certainly worked a lot harder. Personally I would have dropped Gullan and started with John with the logic 2 fold if he does score he wins by giving the fans what they want and by possibly the team winning, if he doesn't score then he justified to hook him as early as half time and say to all those clamouring for his inclusion "see, this is why I dinnae play him" possibly following up by blowing a childish raspberry. I also however would have introduced Mitchell as my first sub hooking Gullan and not Easton (unless it wad enforced by a knock as suggested elsewhere in the thread) to go up top and stretch play with his pace.

I genuinely don't think our young players are all that bad and I think the squad we have is comfortably where a Rovers squad should be which is somewhere between 3rd and 7th in the championship.

Not really sure what Federiksen's salary or how much distance he's travelled has to do with him giving the ball away like that.  That shot was never, ever on.  

Seen a lot of comments on social media regarding him being dropped also.  He was replaced by Vaughan, who scored and is an infinitely better player.  Would people rather he started in place of Vaughan? That would have been absolute insanity.

Don't get me wrong, that corner still should have been defended better.  

[R.R.FC]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Reeee said:

I think the squad we have is comfortably where a Rovers squad should be which is somewhere between 3rd and 7th in the championship.

I know you have given a range down to 7th so I’m being a bit pedantic but there is no way our squad is anywhere near the 3rd best in the league. I would happily swap squads with Dundee, Partick, Queens Park, Inverness and probably Ayr in a heartbeat, particularly with what we have available just now. 

I genuinely think we are exactly where we should be, the only side above us who it could be argued we have better individuals than is Morton IMO but Imrie has down a fantastic job improving nearly every player in their squad.

[Mr.Reeee]

9 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Not really sure what Federiksen's salary or how much distance he's travelled has to do with him giving the ball away like that.  That shot was never, ever on.  

Seen a lot of comments on social media regarding him being dropped also.  He was replaced by Vaughan, who scored and is an infinitely better player.  Would people rather he started in place of Vaughan? That would have been absolute insanity.

Don't get me wrong, that corner still should have been defended better.  

Vaughan played as a 10 behind Gullan who was the striker, so John was dropped as a result shuffle  I would have been quiet happy with Vaughn to start and Gullan lose his place to John.

Are you saying as a player it wouldn't factor into your decision making that you are miles away from your family on a pish wage? Surely a big difference between being along the road from your family and being a bit part player and being in another country overseas and being a bit part player? I know if that was me I would take every opportunity to try and get as much game time as possible to justify the sacrifice, even taking a risk like he did in the dying moment to a) extend the teams lead and win the game and b) force myself into the managers thinking for the next game.

I'd also argue the shot was definitely on, the keeper was off his line and it bounced kindly for him but his execution was poor.

[Mr.Reeee]

14 minutes ago, R.R.FC said:

I know you have given a range down to 7th so I’m being a bit pedantic but there is no way our squad is anywhere near the 3rd best in the league. I would happily swap squads with Dundee, Partick, Queens Park, Inverness and probably Ayr in a heartbeat, particularly with what we have available just now. 

I genuinely think we are exactly where we should be, the only side above us who it could be argued we have better individuals than is Morton IMO but Imrie has down a fantastic job improving nearly every player in their squad.

I think the difference in league position in this league is down to consistency and a bit of luck as the quality of player across the board is not massively different. Most squads have 3 to 4 players of decent quality and others around them of fair quality (in the context of the level the play at) who on a good day can step up a bit. 

Arbroath last season where the epitome of this in my eyes, punched well above there weight with players producing more than would usually be expected of them and building momentum. 

The reason I give such a range of expectation is exactly as above, we will never attract or build a squad which will ne better than 3rd to 7th but we may exceed expectations occasionally due to good form or fortune. We are a championship club due to our infrastructure.

I would agree there are players in other squads around us who I'd like to see in our squad but swapping entirely I believe wouldn't actually achieve all that much.

[CountryBumpkin]

A shot absolutely was the wrong choice. Holding it up and winning a foul or finding a team mate were both much better choices. Frederiksen offers half of what Gullan does, he might not score but he hassles defenders all the time and does his fair share of linking the play. His touch in the lead up to Vaughan's goal was lovely as well, not convinced our weirdly cultish striker pulls anything as good as that off. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by CountryBumpkin