Lasting Power of Attorney: Get It Sorted

[RH33]

57 minutes ago, IncomingExile said:

Hi, thanks for your reply. Have actually typed out two responses but the internet keeps crashing, so this one is a short answer in the vain hope it gets through:
I decided to contact a local solicitor instead to apply for Professional Deputyship (it's an English case), A number of complications related to the leasehold property/dilapidations meant I could have been left holding a very poisoned chalice. 
All happened just before the first lockdown and only now is the property near to going on the market. 
The original post was more to highlight the importance of agreeing a Lasting/Continuous Power of Attorney within your family before it reaches the stage where it is needed, so as to make things easier to deal with compared to the Deputyship/Guardianship role.
Let's hope this version makes it past the internet gods......

I know when it was suggested to mum as option with her father it came with issues that she wasn't willing to take on. I don't know ins and Outs. My paternal grandmother didn't sign her house over until her early 90's and it was sold (well I accidentally sold it!) And proceeds are paying eyewatering care fees.

[TxRover]

35 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Any gifts that total more than £3000 in any of the seven years before you die are taxable in Scotland. Something like that anyway.. 

Yep, the gift limit is 3k a year, total...and the look back is over seven...in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts

[Deanburn Dave]

Different solicitors firms charge different fees to prepare documents so shop around.  Ping off a few emails to firms asking what they would charge.   

[peasy23]

On 07/01/2023 at 18:59, IncomingExile said:

Without writing an epic post, just thought it was worth highlighting how important it is to sit down with your family and talk about arranging a Lasting Power of Attorney. I'm now into my third year of stress and hassle because an elderly relative refused to agree to an LPA arrangement before his health deteriorated and he went into a dementia nursing home.

Once he'd been discharged from hospital lacking mental capacity, it was too late for an LPA to be formalised.

Instead, I had to apply to the Court of Protection for Deputyship (Guardianship in Scotland, but it seems to be equally as onerous upon the applicant). It's obviously set up to protect the afflicted individual but places various liabilities upon the applicant, which in my case I could not afford to take on.

With an LPA in place I could have arranged settlement of his outstanding debts, and sold his house to secure his finances and pay for the £50,000 plus in care-home fees that he's run up. .Instead, it's three years down the line, bailiffs have been involved and I've had to get a solicitor to be appointed by the Court instead. 

People think nothing of making a Will for when they snuff it, but not an LPA in case they become incapacitated, temporarily or permanently. It really is worth the extra couple of hundred quid, you can get it all agreed now when you're all fit and well, then keep it in a drawer just in case it's ever needed. 

I'm not savvy enough to post links but there's plenty of information online. I'd recommend anyone to spend a few minutes reading up, then having a conversation with their family. 

  

My brother has been diagnosed with early onset dementia aged 56, unfortunately his condition has deterioated so quickly that the doctor has said he is already unfit to sign a POA, so we have no choice but to go down the guardian ship route.

My missus managed to get one set up in time when her mother was diagnosed with dementia last year. Govan Law Centre were very helpful in getting it organised.

[Nowhereman]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Any gifts that total more than £3000 in any of the seven years before you die are taxable in Scotland. Something like that anyway.. 

only if your estate is liable to inheritance tax in the first place and if there isn’t enough money to pay it. It’s not a common occurrence as the inheritance tax allowance for a married couple is £650000 and there could be a further £350000 allowance if you leave your house to your children

[Guest]

1 hour ago, peasy23 said:

My brother has been diagnosed with early onset dementia aged 56, unfortunately his condition has deterioated so quickly that the doctor has said he is already unfit to sign a POA, so we have no choice but to go down the guardian ship route.

My missus managed to get one set up in time when her mother was diagnosed with dementia last year. Govan Law Centre were very helpful in getting it organised.

It's bad enough to see in anyone, but that's hard to see in someone so relatively young. 

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

only if your estate is liable to inheritance tax in the first place and if there isn’t enough money to pay it. It’s not a common occurrence as the inheritance tax allowance for a married couple is £650000 and there could be a further £350000 allowance if you leave your house to your children

“married couple”…the unfortunate incident I referred to involved a couple  who were not yet married. Given societal trends, this problem will only increase.

[CityDave94]

12 hours ago, IncomingExile said:

Hi, thanks for your reply. Have actually typed out two responses but the internet keeps crashing, so this one is a short answer in the vain hope it gets through:
I decided to contact a local solicitor instead to apply for Professional Deputyship (it's an English case), A number of complications related to the leasehold property/dilapidations meant I could have been left holding a very poisoned chalice. 
All happened just before the first lockdown and only now is the property near to going on the market. 
The original post was more to highlight the importance of agreeing a Lasting/Continuous Power of Attorney within your family before it reaches the stage where it is needed, so as to make things easier to deal with compared to the Deputyship/Guardianship role.
Let's hope this version makes it past the internet gods......

I hope things are improving for you now things appear to be moving. It's good you knew before hand what you were getting into about the property, some people don't do a full check, solicitors do a fine job checking for any legalalities or previously unknown factors. In our case selling my father and mother's property after my father passed was very stressful and took 9 months which I understand was a short time in comparison, didn't feel like it. Just relieved when it was sold, its a huge weight of everyone's shoulders. Similar we knew what financial complications were attached to the property and any debt was paid off from the estate once the house was sold

Everyone's experiences are different. I found the guardianship was extremely valuable as it gave us more say than social work when it came to deciding which would be the best care home for my mother and how she was looked after and that was absolutely worth it as she was and still is very well looked after. Her social worker's choice ended up being shut down not fit for purpose a year later. My side of the guardianship is dealing with the finances and that certificate you get is so valuable for such things as dealing with the bank, pensions, life insurance and household bills, changing address, it opens doors. It isn't as quick as if it were your finances and arrangements so you always need a bit of patience. If there is one certainty you need when looking after someone with dementia its patience, extremely difficult when completely stressed out 24-7 and trying hard not to show it, because you can't show it.

[welshbairn]

12 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

only if your estate is liable to inheritance tax in the first place and if there isn’t enough money to pay it. It’s not a common occurrence as the inheritance tax allowance for a married couple is £650000 and there could be a further £350000 allowance if you leave your house to your children

Think I'm right in saying that gifts totalling over £3000 in any year are added to the value of the estate, basically to stop rich families avoiding inheritance tax by doling out the money before death. 

[Molotov]

14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Any gifts that total more than £3000 in any of the seven years before you die are taxable in Scotland. Something like that anyway.. 

how is that all monitored?

Do the authorities go through all your credit card statements, bank statements and cctv to see what “exchanges” take place?

I heard a story of an auld guy turning up in a brand new top of the range Porsche sports car to his regular meeting with his Independent Financial Advisor.

IFA says “wow why are you splashing out on that car given you’ve always been very frugal”

Auld guy says “I figured that my son would only buy one as soon as I died so figured I might as well get first shot at driving it!”

[mozam76]

Subject close to my heart this one, both professionally and personally.

My wife and I work in family law and we often see the resulting confusion and heartbreak that can occur if people don't have PoA's/wills in place. The one thing I'd say here, and it's just a wee niggle on my behalf, is that it's really important for people to remember that PoA is not something that you can apply for in order to get powers OVER someone's affairs. It's powers that are GRANTED BY the person. We often have people come in and see us who say "I want to apply for PoA for my (whoever)". When they then are told that it's not them that apply, it's the person who grants the power, it becomes difficult - especially if the person is on the brink of losing capacity or, simply stubborn about the whole thing. 

Can't stress enough that everyone should be having these conversations, however awkward, with their relatives or those who they care for. At the very least they should familiarise themselves with what a PoA is, the differences between it and Guardianship, etc. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, mozam76 said:

Subject close to my heart this one, both professionally and personally.

My wife and I work in family law and we often see the resulting confusion and heartbreak that can occur if people don't have PoA's/wills in place. The one thing I'd say here, and it's just a wee niggle on my behalf, is that it's really important for people to remember that PoA is not something that you can apply for in order to get powers OVER someone's affairs. It's powers that are GRANTED BY the person. We often have people come in and see us who say "I want to apply for PoA for my (whoever)". When they then are told that it's not them that apply, it's the person who grants the power, it becomes difficult - especially if the person is on the brink of losing capacity or, simply stubborn about the whole thing. 

Can't stress enough that everyone should be having these conversations, however awkward, with their relatives or those who they care for. At the very least they should familiarise themselves with what a PoA is, the differences between it and Guardianship, etc. 

Well said, after telling my mates about the saga of the phone company bill never mind the leasehold problems, a couple of them then went on to sort things out with their folks, getting the LPA documents signed and stamped just in case.

Sadly in one case that became especially relevant as his father took ill and went into a fairly rapid decline.    

[Florentine_Pogen]

On the back of reading this thread, I had a chat with my mother re. PoA and she's all for it. So much so that we've got an appt. with her solicitor next week. One thing they already told us, The Office of the Public Guardian are presently taking 7-8 months to register a PoA.

 

[mozam76]

16 hours ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

On the back of reading this thread, I had a chat with my mother re. PoA and she's all for it. So much so that we've got an appt. with her solicitor next week. One thing they already told us, The Office of the Public Guardian are presently taking 7-8 months to register a PoA.

 

Pre March 2020 it was anything between 8-12 weeks, but never longer than that. Then the world broke, and they haven't really recovered. A PoA can be expedited (had one come back this morning from the OPG having only been applied for back in November), but I think that depends on if they are in a care facility, or if they perhaps have capacity at the time but a recent diagnosis of dementia etc.

[Florentine_Pogen]

On 11/01/2023 at 11:09, mozam76 said:

Subject close to my heart this one, both professionally and personally.

My wife and I work in family law and we often see the resulting confusion and heartbreak that can occur if people don't have PoA's/wills in place. The one thing I'd say here, and it's just a wee niggle on my behalf, is that it's really important for people to remember that PoA is not something that you can apply for in order to get powers OVER someone's affairs. It's powers that are GRANTED BY the person. We often have people come in and see us who say "I want to apply for PoA for my (whoever)". When they then are told that it's not them that apply, it's the person who grants the power, it becomes difficult - especially if the person is on the brink of losing capacity or, simply stubborn about the whole thing. 

Can't stress enough that everyone should be having these conversations, however awkward, with their relatives or those who they care for. At the very least they should familiarise themselves with what a PoA is, the differences between it and Guardianship, etc. 

 

On 11/01/2023 at 17:11, Florentine_Pogen said:

On the back of reading this thread, I had a chat with my mother re. PoA and she's all for it. So much so that we've got an appt. with her solicitor next week. One thing they already told us, The Office of the Public Guardian are presently taking 7-8 months to register a PoA.

 

Just thought I'd add a wee update to let you all know just how important & practical a PoA can be. My mother (90 y.o.) had a heart attack on 7th Jan. She spent 6 days in hospital after having 2 stents implanted and her mobility / quality of life are currently very restricted. She asked me to get more involved in her day to day affairs, incl. finances. I therefore needed official access to her bank acct. 

On Monday 15th I went into her bank armed with PoA, my passport and my driving licence. Filled out a couple of forms, photocopies / scans taken in branch and last Friday I received my own debit card. Today the PIN arrived. The process could not have been smoother. 

BTW, our PoA (Continuing & Welfare Power of Attorney) cost £350 +VAT. Possibly the best money we ever spent.

Edited January 23 by Florentine_Pogen

[Hedgecutter]

On 07/01/2023 at 19:34, RH33 said:

When mum and dad were down recently I was saying they should get this set up soon with my sister. 

And did it cheer them up?

[mozam76]

1 hour ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

 

Just thought I'd add a wee update to let you all know just how important & practical a PoA can be. My mother (90 y.o.) had a heart attack on 7th Jan. She spent 6 days in hospital after having 2 stents implanted and her mobility / quality of life are currently very restricted. She asked me to get more involved in her day to day affairs, incl. finances. I therefore needed official access to her bank acct. 

On Monday 15th I went into her bank armed with PoA, my passport and my driving licence. Filled out a couple of forms, photocopies / scans taken in branch and last Friday I received my own debit card. Today the PIN arrived. The process could not have been smoother. 

BTW, our PoA (Continuing & Welfare Power of Attorney) cost £350 +VAT. Possibly the best money we ever spent.

Glad to hear this has all been sorted for you. I hope your Mum recovers well, best wishes to you both. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

5 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

Glad to hear this has all been sorted for you. I hope your Mum recovers well, best wishes to you both. 

Thank you. She's doing well and is pretty tough for her age. (Well, she is originally fae Niddrie.....)

[welshbairn]

Having POA for my mum and dad made everything so much easier in their final years. Going to sort out my own now, just in case. I was relieved to see this though, don't want anyone nosying about my business before it's necessary.

Quote

You can decide you only want it to begin if you become incapable, and can specify how you want your incapacity to be determined.

https://www.mygov.scot/power-of-attorney