Is your team's stadium crumbling?

[Molotov]

Just now, PauloPerth said:

“The vast bowl-shaped terracing was removed and replaced by three rectangular, all-seated stands by 1981.”

 

I don’t like to be sticking up for them, but that’s exactly what happened is it not?!!

They knocked down the curved terracing on 3 sides and put up 3 all-seated stands.  It’s the exact same that Celtic did under Fergus McCann in the 90’s.

Only difference was rangers’ main stand had a terraced enclosure along the front.

The point I’m making is that they and the authorities heralded it as an “all seater stadium” back in 1981 when it clearly wasn’t.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

wasn’t sure either so looked, apparently it did also apply to Scotland: 
 

 

3. Subject to Recommendation 2 above, Recommendation 1 above should apply with effect from the start of the 1994/5 season to all matches at grounds in the first and second divisions of the Football League, the Premier Division of the Scottish Football League, and at national stadia, subject to a reasonable extension of time in the case of a club promoted to the second division of the Football League or the Premier Division of the Scottish Football League. Standing accommodation at these grounds should be reduced annually by 20% of the present standing capacity (such present standing capacity to be calculated according to Recommendation 8 below), the first 20% deduction being effective from August 1990 so as to eliminate standing by August 1994.

So I take it that the law has since been formally repealed?

[Cowdenleith]

3 hours ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I’m pretty sure Kilbowie would still have been standing at the time McDiarmid was built.

Technically, Kilbowie was the first all seater football stadium in the UK if I remember correctly (I may be wrong).

I suppose you could argue that Meadowbank Stadium was all seater, think the seats were put in Kilbowie a little after Thistle joined the league.

[Sergeant Wilson]

34 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

They knocked down the curved terracing on 3 sides.

I wish they'd kept going.

[Kyle Reese]

13 hours ago, Molotov said:

There has been a lot of effort made by St Mirren fans to the “NorthBank” in the West Stand over the last few weeks.

These images don’t show the impact it has had. Outstanding effort by all concerned. Some of the old photos were rescued from the hospitality suite when they were supposedly heading to the local dump.  

The hall of fame images have been in place for years, but now the fans have added their stamp on the ground and there are further improvements planned. 

Well done everyone involved!

 

Kudos on making a panda look ferocious.

[mozam76]

50 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think it was a bit earlier, but could be wrong.  Did the enclosure continue after the Club Deck was installed?  The latter was definitely in place by 1993.

It did indeed. The Club Deck opened in 1991.  My same pal, through a drunken torpor right enough, has confirmed this morning that he was at the final game before they put seats in the East Enclosure (West had already been done) which was a 1-1 draw with Celtic (30th April 1994). 
 

Edited January 1, 2023 by mozam76

[Sugar_Army]

1 hour ago, Molotov said:

It’s strange how opinions can differ. 

Just a few differing points from my perspective. 

Kilmarnock must have the worst leg room in the league with regards seating. 

United’s ground is a hot potch of stands. It is really strange as an away supporter to be using the old “home” end facilities. It used to be a great ground.
Best in the league no doubt Tynecastle closely followed by Easter Road. 

Finally Parkhead and Ibrox should just be carpet bombed and left deserted as a reminder that religious bigotry has no place in our country.

 

George Fox and Eddie T stands are OK but Shed is very dated looking, as is the whole main stand(s).  Unfortunately I do not see anything changing for the foreseeable future. 

I think even if we had the money to redevelop we would be restricted with regards what we can do due to the current footprint and surrounding area.

Yes most stadiums needed upgrading (and tbf, probably very few would have been had it not been for Taylor) but it meant clubs got nto further debt.

We now see the knock-on effects of how spending money to put in seats that are hardly ever used.

Clubs borrowed/spent money they no longer had, importing foreign players who came and went on higher wages (many who were probably no better than home grown ones) which in turn had a long-term knock-on for youth development and the national team. 

All of this while we all chased the gravy train myth, hyped by TV deals and trying unrealistically to keep up with the old firm (primarily Rangers in the 90s).

The 10,000/all seated stadiums were a disaster.  They are mostly half-full at best thanks to much of listed above as poor product on the park and cost. 

It is hard enough attracting fans to the game but once you get there and look around,  most hardly enhance the fan experience. Especially for away fans. 

Knee-breaker seats at Tannadice,  restricted views at Celtic Park, missing seats and covering at Pitoddrie and being stuck in the lower corner at Ibrox being showered by god knows what and then abused by the polis on the way out.

[Swello]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The old seats are at Armadale and Whitburn now. Maybe elsewhere too.

Good intel. I need to go and take back my seat that I had from the East Stand since they redeveloped it in 1991 which (due to a short lived initiative in the late 90's) had my name on it. Would have looked good in the garden where I could have spent happy hours berating imaginary linesman.

Fir Park is a bit of a relic and despite the money spent on it, I think it's probably a bit of a mill stone round the club's neck at this point (and has been for a while). I'm as sentimental about the place as anyone but I'd reluctantly back a move to a new place (as long as a huge list of unrealistic design requirements can be met)

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Did the Taylor Report make anything compulsory in Scotland?

 

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

I thought it was uk wide. Could be wrong. 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Our football authorities certainly made it compulsory later on, but I don't know if it was a legal requirement here.

 

58 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

wasn’t sure either so looked, apparently it did also apply to Scotland: 
 

 

3. Subject to Recommendation 2 above, Recommendation 1 above should apply with effect from the start of the 1994/5 season to all matches at grounds in the first and second divisions of the Football League, the Premier Division of the Scottish Football League, and at national stadia, subject to a reasonable extension of time in the case of a club promoted to the second division of the Football League or the Premier Division of the Scottish Football League. Standing accommodation at these grounds should be reduced annually by 20% of the present standing capacity (such present standing capacity to be calculated according to Recommendation 8 below), the first 20% deduction being effective from August 1990 so as to eliminate standing by August 1994.

 

49 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

So I take it that the law has since been formally repealed?

THE 10,000 SEAT RULE - THE FACTS

Published: 7th April 2004

Following the events of recent weeks and the on-going media discussion surrounding the SPL's Stadia Criteria, the SPL have sent Clubs the following document outlining some facts regarding the existing rules and how they were established. The text of the document is as follows:-

There is much misunderstanding about the requirement upon SPL Clubs to have registered grounds that meet the stadium criteria. These criteria reflect requirements that predate the existence of the SPL by several years. They come out of work done in the aftermath of the disasters at Ibrox and Hillsborough. The government, the SFA and the SFL agreed the rules. The following points are key to the current rules:

- In 1994 the Scottish football authorities, together with the Government (then the Scottish Office) determined that the stadia of all premier clubs should be all seated and have a minimum capacity of 10,000. This became embodied in the SFL Stadia Handbook.

- Agreement with the Scottish Office removed the need for a Football Licensing Authority, as was introduced in England and Wales;

- These rules were developed to ensure compliance with the Safety at Sports Grounds Act 1975 and the recommendations of the Taylor Report into the tragedy at Hillsborough on 15 April 1989;

- Lord Taylor's Report stated that such rules were required for reasons of "safety, public order and spectator comfort";

- The requirement for 10,000 seats has been in place since 1993/94 although clubs were allowed until the end of season 1997/98 to complete the work. This requirement is detailed in National Planning Policy Guideline 11 - Sport, Physical Recreation and Open Space;

- The SPL inherited the 10,000-seat requirement for premier grounds from the SFL and SFA in 1998. An agreement reached then saw the deadline for compliance extended by one year until July 1999;

- The SPL has fully accepted its responsibility in respect of the assurances given in 1994;

- The SPL has taken, and continues to take, an entirely consistent approach to the application of these rules over the past six years;

- Neither the SFA nor the SFL has sought any review of these rules;

- The new UEFA Licensing system includes similar provisions in respect of stadia.

SPL Executive Chairman, Lex Gold, has engaged Ministers at the Scottish Executive on this matter. He has also proposed a review of the criteria be carried out by the SPL, SFA and SFL. This means that all of Scottish senior football will be involved in the review, as they were in the creation of the rules.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Swello said:

Good intel. I need to go and take back my seat that I had from the East Stand since they redeveloped it in 1991 which (due to a short lived initiative in the late 90's) had my name on it. Would have looked good in the garden where I could have spent happy hours berating imaginary linesman.

Fir Park is a bit of a relic and despite the money spent on it, I think it's probably a bit of a mill stone round the club's neck at this point (and has been for a while). I'm as sentimental about the place as anyone but I'd reluctantly back a move to a new place (as long as a huge list of unrealistic design requirements can be met)

Moving almost always looks like a mistake to me, with the obvious benefit of hindsight.

It's obviously been pretty much necessary in some cases, but I can hardly think of any that don't look regrettable.

[Molotov]

20 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Kudos on making a panda look ferocious.

Have you ever tried stealing bamboo from a panda?

[Tattie36]

30 minutes ago, Cowdenleith said:

I suppose you could argue that Meadowbank Stadium was all seater, think the seats were put in Kilbowie a little after Thistle joined the league.

It’s nearly always stated that Kilbowie or even Pittodrie were the first but it was definitely Meadowbank Stadium.

Thistle came into the league in ‘76 and Meadowbank was never anything other than all-seated with the big main stand and a ring of (unused for fitba) bench seating around the running track.

Ok, granted it wasn’t a purpose built or refurbished football stadium but it was definitely the first all seated stadium in Scotland to host football.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Tattie36

[Molotov]

18 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

It did indeed. The Club Deck opened in 1991.  My same pal, through a drunken torpor right enough, has confirmed this morning that he was at the final game before they put seats in the East Enclosure (West had already been done) which was a 1-1 draw with Celtic (30th April 1994). 
 

So there we have it. Ibrox despite the lies was never an all seater stadium until 1994. 

[Kyle Reese]

8 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Have you ever tried stealing bamboo from a panda?

No but I once made a chicken run.

[Molotov]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

 

 I’d be surprised if you got a grant for saying your stadium was all-seated when you had standing for 9000. It surely wouldn’t be too hard to expose that lie!

Are you sure that following the redevelopment of Ibrox during the late 70s that the east and west enclosures held 9000 fans?

That’s a fifth of the Ibrox capacity back then. 

IIRC the Copland Rd stand when completed in 1979 had a capacity of 8,000.

Even a redeveloped Love St only had a safety certificate for 10000 back in the day. 

 

[ScoRoss]

The Merkland Stand is definitely crumbling. And the main stand and south stand aren't great places to be sat in either. Aside from the Dick Donald lower, there's hardly a good seat in the entire stadium.

[Molotov]

Just now, Kyle Reese said:

No but I once made a chicken run.

That reminds me of a famous area of Upton Park back in the 80s when I went there.

[HibeeJibee]

Meadowbank was first all-seater, followed by Kilbowie then Pittodrie.

McDiarmid was first all-seater with individual seats and fully covered.

In early 1990s you also had Ibrox about 4/5 seated and Dens about 3/5 seated... Everywhere else had a majority standing.

Starting with McDiarmid - numerous stadiums were built or rebuilt specifically designed to (just) meet expectation of 10,000 all-seater criteria from late 1980s through 1990s e.g. Excelsior, Almondvale, New Douglas Park, Stark's Park, Broadwood.

Btw - Clydebank declared their capacity as 9,950 to avoid stricter Sports Ground Act requirements which applied to 10k+ capacities.

Edited January 1, 2023 by HibeeJibee

[ArabFC]

22 minutes ago, Sugar_Army said:

George Fox and Eddie T stands are OK but Shed is very dated looking, as is the whole main stand(s).  Unfortunately I do not see anything changing for the foreseeable future. 

I think even if we had the money to redevelop we would be restricted with regards what we can do due to the current footprint and surrounding area.

The Shed may be looking very dated, but does anyone really care? Nowhere else I'd rather be in a big game.

Its function is basically as an overflow stand, so keep it as billy basic as possible. Unless the club were willing to invest in making it into a safe standing stand.

What money might eventually be spent on if there was any available is the Jerry Kerr. A stand designed for people rising no more than five foot.

[Derry Alli]

10 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

No but I once made a chicken run.

Ah, you've encountered the 'Perth Pack', too?