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NHS Reform


SandyCromarty

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5 minutes ago, 101 said:

Pressumably not everyone pays the prescription fees in England?

But a box of ibuprofen costs the NHS £3.74 in 2015 and according to the article the same thing in Asda would cost you 19p.

Obviously Asda don't make them themselves so it's pretty obvious the NHS is being shafted.

In total, prescribing four common painkillers - including paracetamol, ibuprofen, aspirin and codeine phosphate - cost the NHS £161,500,000 in 2015

Aye, you're right, I'm surprised by that. Presumably they negotiate access to new drugs on the basis of getting overcharged on generic ones, unless it's just the cost of admin.

https://northyorkshireccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/NY-Paracetamol.pdf

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Aye, you're right, I'm surprised by that. Presumably they negotiate access to new drugs on the basis of getting overcharged on generic ones, unless it's just the cost of admin.

https://northyorkshireccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/NY-Paracetamol.pdf

And obviously it makes no sense if you can afford the prescription fee not to just buy it in the supermarket, so I imagine the folk getting such cheap medicine on prescription are people who are eligible for free prescriptions.

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5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Aye, you're right, I'm surprised by that. Presumably they negotiate access to new drugs on the basis of getting overcharged on generic ones, unless it's just the cost of admin.

https://northyorkshireccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/NY-Paracetamol.pdf

 

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

And obviously it makes no sense if you can afford the prescription fee not to just buy it in the supermarket, so I imagine the folk getting such cheap medicine on prescription are people who are eligible for free prescriptions.

Apparently 89% of prescriptions in England are free. People are exempt for all sorts of reasons, but there will still be admin that needs done on exempt prescriptions, so the charge has to cover that too.

It’s difficult to see how the charge even pays for its own admin, never mind making a significant net contribution to budgets. Like I say, I haven’t found a robust analysis. But it was introduced by the first Tory government after the NHS so there’s a reasonable chance that it’s more ideological tokenism than economic logic.

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8 minutes ago, coprolite said:

 

Apparently 89% of prescriptions in England are free. People are exempt for all sorts of reasons, but there will still be admin that needs done on exempt prescriptions, so the charge has to cover that too.

It’s difficult to see how the charge even pays for its own admin, never mind making a significant net contribution to budgets. Like I say, I haven’t found a robust analysis. But it was introduced by the first Tory government after the NHS so there’s a reasonable chance that it’s more ideological tokenism than economic logic.

When they abolished prescription charges in Wales I remember the estimated cost being about £40 million which would be compensated for by the preventative consequences of more people taking their medicine.

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7 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Catchy, but not as good as this belter 

_99609613_8e5e3cfe-4bfe-407a-85d8-4f9526cb0670.jpg.8a13d2094453423f77ba6235e57f1876.jpg

 

In these dark, economically challenging times, maybe the Tories could give us all a laugh and put Rishi's Downing Street mantra on the side of a bus - just picture it -  "integrity, professionalism and accountability".

I mean, ok, they might be in soapy bubble with the Advertising Standards Authority but maybe they should give it a go? 

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11 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Paying to see your GP is quite common in many other countries including socialist ones.

I think it’s a good idea and would help to eliminate frivolous appointments. It would also help to engender a spirit of self help which is sadly lacking in the UK.

What would you define as frivolous? 

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7 hours ago, BMG Spider said:

I‘m assuming he means anybody else’s appointments.

Absolutely not.

Most things in life require making a payment.

Why not a GP appointment?

Most things can be self diagnosed or medicated via a pharmacy but, obviously, if there is a persistent problem, pain or bleed, continuous cough, etc., then a GP visit is adviseable.

The fact that so much paracetamol is prescribed is indicative of frivolous appointments.

A small fee will, at the very least, make people stop and think before booking the appointment.

Just seems sensible. No big deal.

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2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Most things in life require making a payment.

Why not a GP appointment?

Because it's already paid for through taxation. You've fallen into the classic Tory trap/argument in laying the blame at the end-user (frivolous appointments etc) when quite clearly it's a far more nuanced argument than simply making people pay. Massive underinvestment, an absolutely incredible number of health professionals leaving due to Brexit and, of course, a pathological hatred of the idea of a free NHS (now that the doorstep applause is finished) by the Tories all feed in to this state of affairs. Yes, money is needed - a fiver for an appointment or that £350 million to fund the NHS? Which option do you think has the best chance of turning the situation around?

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2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Absolutely not.

Most things in life require making a payment.

Why not a GP appointment?

Most things can be self diagnosed or medicated via a pharmacy but, obviously, if there is a persistent problem, pain or bleed, continuous cough, etc., then a GP visit is adviseable.

The fact that so much paracetamol is prescribed is indicative of frivolous appointments.

A small fee will, at the very least, make people stop and think before booking the appointment.

Just seems sensible. No big deal.

Boz. 

If it's a small fee, it'll make very little if any difference to the number of appointment sought AND would still have to require an exception scheme for the financially knackered and certain categories of patients - children, teenagers, dementia and other elderly, those with long term conditions, care home residents and no doubt others - requiring more "bureaucracy" and thereby, cost. 

If it's a large fee, it's just another revolting, cynical approach to rationing health care for the poorer.  

Really, DPB, you'll need to do better than that.  What next? Payment for being allowed to vote?  We should be doing everything we can to encourage folk to "get that checked out" rather than saying "What? I'd have to pay? I'll leave it a week or so and see ifit gets better..." 

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24 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Boz. 

If it's a small fee, it'll make very little if any difference to the number of appointment sought AND would still have to require an exception scheme for the financially knackered and certain categories of patients - children, teenagers, dementia and other elderly, those with long term conditions, care home residents and no doubt others - requiring more "bureaucracy" and thereby, cost. 

If it's a large fee, it's just another revolting, cynical approach to rationing health care for the poorer.  

Really, DPB, you'll need to do better than that.  What next? Payment for being allowed to vote?  We should be doing everything we can to encourage folk to "get that checked out" rather than saying "What? I'd have to pay? I'll leave it a week or so and see ifit gets better..." 

Anything that discourages people from visiting health professionals at the earliest possible opportunity is going to lead to worse long term outcomes & cost more eventually.

This of course goes further than just paying, the fact that it’s difficult enough to see a GP now is already I’m sure leading to people doing exactly as you say & people are putting it off & waiting to see if it gets better. 

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4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Absolutely not.

Most things in life require making a payment.

Why not a GP appointment?

Most things can be self diagnosed or medicated via a pharmacy but, obviously, if there is a persistent problem, pain or bleed, continuous cough, etc., then a GP visit is adviseable.

The fact that so much paracetamol is prescribed is indicative of frivolous appointments.

A small fee will, at the very least, make people stop and think before booking the appointment.

Just seems sensible. No big deal.

Who is this payment going to in your scenario ?

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There are massive amounts of GP appointments wasted on nonsense, but the solution to that shouldnt be charging people, but educating them. Its also one very good reason that receptionists who are painted in a very negative light for ‘being nosey’ ask ‘why’ you want to see the doctor, as most appointments could be dealt with at a minor ailments clinic. That plus trying to plug gaps in mental health and social care provision.  

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18 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Say what you like about DPB, (and some do) but he is as good an example as you could want of someone who never considers the open goals he is leaving in the moments before he posts. 

It’s probably because just about everyone on here is of a similar left wing socialist mindset where they don’t ever have to account for anything. The state will pay, why should I bother?

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10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

There are massive amounts of GP appointments wasted on nonsense, but the solution to that shouldnt be charging people, but educating them. Its also one very good reason that receptionists who are painted in a very negative light for ‘being nosey’ ask ‘why’ you want to see the doctor, as most appointments could be dealt with at a minor ailments clinic. That plus trying to plug gaps in mental health and social care provision.  

You talk about educating people but how?

I totally agree with you about receptionists. The more crabbit the better.

The sad truth is that the only thing that people bother about is money and that’s the only reason I suggested charging.

If your ‘educating’ can do the trick, good luck.

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On 21/01/2023 at 09:27, 101 said:

I don't know why it's never discussed but the open goal for making the NHS survive is creating a pharmaceutical agency to produce the drugs we use.

Currently the NHS is absolutely rinsed for simple things like Paracetamol it would be far cheaper to make our own. I'm not sure how it would work with more complex drugs, but even the simple stuff would surely make more sense than lining the pockets of American pharmaceuticals, it would also open up a whole load of new R&D jobs.

This isn't really true though, although often quoted. Common drugs are mostly purchased on a bulk basis through national procurement so the NHS benefits from economy of scale. The costs involved in setting up manufacturing facilities for the thousands of drugs in use would be prohibitive. Pharmaceutical companies are transnational and produce on a massive scale.

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