Scottish Budget Day

[Dawson Park Boy]

10 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

If that's true, you've also paid for your prescriptions, over 60's bus pass and any free school meals you ever had many times over?

Somehow, I'm not convinced that you attended University, but if you did, you've also paid for that many times over.

Why do you consider the "many times over" argument to only apply to one benefit, which coincidentally we all know you currently receive?

Just happy to abide by the rules of the government I live under.

I paid school fees for the kids, private health insurance for myself and the wife so I’ve done my part in not being a burden on the state. If they chose to put £250 x2 into my bank account, fair enough. Likewise, if I prefer to do things privately, my choice. Things like the state pension, the £10 at Christmas (who dreamt that up), I had no choice about contributing into so I’ll take whatever they throw at me. 
The obvious solution is to increase choice by granting tax relief on school fees(abolish charitable status as a quid pro quo), health insurance (it was allowed many years ago) and by so doing we start to move towards a much better and competitive public sector. In fact some of our European neighbours have a mix of health funding which allows them to have far better outcomes. It’s time to move away from the current, failed statist model we currently operate.

Yes, I attended Glasgow University. It was so long ago that I can’t recall how fees were paid.

[scottsdad]

14 hours ago, Frankie S said:

I said during Covid that I’d be broadly in favour of paying more income tax if it was ring-fenced for the NHS, which Swinney has assured us will be the case (let’s hope so). There’s no doubt though that middle earners are being squeezed hard up here compared to our English counterparts. The higher rate threshold has been frozen for years in Scotland, and it’s not just an additional 1%, taking us up to 42% v 40% in England: Scots taxpayers will pay an effective rate of 54% (42% income tax and 12% NIC) on earnings between £43,663 and £50,271 compared to an effective rate of 32% for our counterparts south of the border (20% income tax and 12% NIC), a 22% difference in that band, which is a huge disparity. 43k might represent a large salary in some areas, but in areas of the Central Belt such as Edinburgh, where property prices have always been sky high, and mortgages correspondingly more burdensome, 43k spreads rather thinner than elsewhere. It’s certainly a bold move, and Scotland’s increasingly ageing population and relatively high level of welfare dependancy clearly requires a higher tax burden, though it certainly won’t make us any more competitive in the jobs marketplace. 

We had someone join us a bit over a year ago, moving up from England. He thought he was going to get a pay rise, but when the wages came in he found he was getting less than he was on before because of the tax thresholds here.

He really should have looked in to this before making the move.

[Aufc]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

"The NHS is broken"........"f**k paying an extra penny on anything I earn above £43k for a better NHS"

 

Pretty much the same people making both statements laughably. 

Not sure if this is aimed at me but given its below my comment then im guessing so. I am saying that raising taxes for middle earners is not really addressing issues which cost the NHS a huge amount of cash and contribute to the state of it. It just papers over the cracks.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, Aufc said:

This argument frustrates me. Whilst someone on £45k a year earns a decent sum compared to a lot of people, they are hardly rich. Throw in the fact that their electric costs have almost certainly increased substantially, their mortgage rate possibly as well (if they can even afford a mortgage in edinburgh) alongside every other cost. There are also many reasons why someone may earn £50k and live in Edinburgh. If they move out of Edinburgh as you say then it might introduce extra costs such as having to run a car or additional travel costs, additional childcare costs etc. Its not really as black and white as you suggesting

Play me the world's tiniest violin 

I'm on £36K a year, have a disabled partner who has benefit only income, but still manage to live extremely comfortably. If someone on £45-50K a year has decided to mortgage themselves up to baws to live in a boring as f**k new build estate to the extent that an extra few quid a month in tax is a massive problem then i'm afraid that's down to them making extremely poor choices. 

Maybe "rich" isn't quite the right word, but somebody sleeving £1000 a week in salary should in almost any circumstance be "extremely comfortable". 

[BFTD]

Being rich is like being racist - nobody will admit to it, even if they meet the dictionary definitions.

[Cairn Terrier]

34 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

 

Yes, I attended Glasgow University. It was so long ago that I can’t recall how fees were paid.

 

If you attended Uni back then you would know damn well you didn’t pay any fees at all and more than likely got a grant to boot.

 

[Dawson Park Boy]

3 minutes ago, Cairn Terrier said:

 

If you attended Uni back then you would know damn well you didn’t pay any fees at all and more than likely got a grant to boot.

 

Yes, probably, so what?

Very few people attended university in those days.

The argument is about individuals paying for things they want with consequent low taxes  rather than paying high taxes and being beholden to the state and all its apparatchiks.

[Abdul_Latif]

16 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Play me the world's tiniest violin 

I'm on £36K a year, have a disabled partner who has benefit only income, but still manage to live extremely comfortably. If someone on £45-50K a year has decided to mortgage themselves up to baws to live in a boring as f**k new build estate to the extent that an extra few quid a month in tax is a massive problem then i'm afraid that's down to them making extremely poor choices. 

Maybe "rich" isn't quite the right word, but somebody sleeving £1000 a week in salary should in almost any circumstance be "extremely comfortable". 

Fucking hell, are we actually at the point of vilifying say a single parent senior nurse with two kids?

£45K is not a large salary and sums like that should be kept well out of the conversation when talking about high earners.

[Granny Danger]

54 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

They would though.

What’s this weekend’s lottery numbers?

[Salt n Vinegar]

12 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Yes, good idea.

Always better to pay for your own things than rely on the state.

Always? 

Planning your daily or holiday travel must be incredibly complicated, with all those roads and bridges you have to build.   

I don't think the situation is particularly remarkable. Different tax rates and different social policies north and south of the border are an inevitable consequence of devolution.

The Scottish Government is setting out a view on the kind of country they believe Scotland can be and ought to be. Election results would tend to suggest that more voters are attracted to the kind of policies Swinney puts forward than favour those of the Tories, Labour or the LibDems. Seems pretty democratic to me. 

Scotland appears to favour different social policies to those of England - as demonstrated by election results - and policy is bound to reflect that fact.  If the 3 other parties in the Parliament want to implement their policies, maybe they should have a go at winning Scottish Parliament elections. You never know! 

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

51 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

We had someone join us a bit over a year ago, moving up from England. He thought he was going to get a pay rise, but when the wages came in he found he was getting less than he was on before because of the tax thresholds here.

He really should have looked in to this before making the move.

Quite right about that.  

Presumably he should also have looked into the overall "costs" of being here. Educational fees, housing costs, prescriptions, travel concessions, additional payments of Carers' Allowance and so on. 

Research is important. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Always? 

Planning your daily or holiday travel must be incredibly complicated, with all those roads and bridges you have to build.   

I don't think the situation is particularly remarkable. Different tax rates and different social policies north and south of the border are an inevitable consequence of devolution.

The Scottish Government is setting out a view on the kind of country they believe Scotland can be and ought to be. Election results would tend to suggest that more voters are attracted to the kind of policies Swinney puts forward than favour those of the Tories, Labour or the LibDems. Seems pretty democratic to me. 

Scotland appears to favour different social policies to those of England - as demonstrated by election results - and policy is bound to reflect that fact.  If the 3 other parties in the Parliament want to implement their policies, maybe they should have a go at winning Scottish Parliament elections. You never know! 

 

Can’t argue with that.

Yes, it’s down to the voters.

Too late for me to move away but I’ll still use my right to state my views however much they are in a minority.

Funnily enough, voters views change fairly regularly too. We’ve had the Tories in charge for quite a while(albeit a very left wing variety) and when things aren’t going well they want the current government out so no doubt Labour will be back in at the next election. Once socialism is shown to be useless, after another period voters will move back to the right and the Tories will be back.

Thats how it goes!

[BFTD]

"I can't remember how I paid my university fees. Oh, I was never charged any? Well, I don't know very much about these things"  

Hilarious stuff. Only missing the standard, "perhaps other, better informed P&Bers would be able to contribute more information about my financial arrangements".

[williemillersmoustache]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

We had someone join us a bit over a year ago, moving up from England. He thought he was going to get a pay rise, but when the wages came in he found he was getting less than he was on before because of the tax thresholds here.

He really should have looked in to this before making the move.

In my experience most people who have moved up at a senior enough level will have factored all this stuff in. I've moved a number of folk who have cited the ability to upgrade their property to a far greater extent than they ever could afford to down south and better access to schools etc. 

If you have lived in any of the myriad of shitehole commuter belt towns in Kent or Surrey, with an up to 3 hour commute either end and where the best you can do is a 2 bed shoe box then a 3 bed detached in Alloa is comparative paradise. 

[coprolite]

21 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Can’t argue with that.

Yes, it’s down to the voters.

Too late for me to move away but I’ll still use my right to state my views however much they are in a minority.

Funnily enough, voters views change fairly regularly too. We’ve had the Tories in charge for quite a while(albeit a very left wing variety) and when things aren’t going well they want the current government out so no doubt Labour will be back in at the next election. Once socialism is shown to be useless, after another period voters will move back to the right and the Tories will be back.

Thats how it goes!

Been a while since Labour have been in the same paragraph as Socialism.

Left wing Tories is a belter.

[BFTD]

9 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Been a while since Labour have been in the same paragraph as Socialism.

Left wing Tories is a belter.

The view of the political spectrum that he espouses is properly mental, and doesn't remotely match up to what any of the participants at either end would agree with. It's like he walked out of a work of dystopian fascism and can't quite adjust to not being fictional.

[carpetmonster]

9 minutes ago, BFTD said:

The view of the political spectrum that he espouses is properly mental, and doesn't remotely match up to what any of the participants at either end would agree with. It's like he walked out of a work of dystopian fascism and can't quite adjust to not being fictional.

You’re all being far too cynical and absolutist; of course there are left wing Tories. Matthew Parris was famously one, for example. 
 

 

See! He’s a liberal! 

[Rugster]

33 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Been a while since Labour have been in the same paragraph as Socialism.

Left wing Tories is a belter.

Guy's a grade a moon man.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, carpetmonster said:

You’re all being far too cynical and absolutist; of course there are left wing Tories. Matthew Parris was famously one, for example. 
 

 

See! He’s a liberal! 

Indeed, we all remember the famous liberal doctrine, "all men are created equal, but we've tried and now it's time to discriminate based on ignorance".

[williemillersmoustache]

8 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

You’re all being far too cynical and absolutist; of course there are left wing Tories. Matthew Parris was famously one, for example. 
 

 

See! He’s a liberal! 

Never forget, the only reason we have a small boat crisis, is because these left of centre Liberal , tofu eating, woke, Conservatives created it.