Ben Doak

[HalfCutNinja]

18 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Endrick is scoring a goal every other game, at senior level, at 16, and has also played more senior games. Hes also just joined a bigger club.

I agree with a lot of what you say but Doak isnt, and never will be, close to Endrick.

I actually think this is a good example of the negative mindset that holds us back. You've never seen Endrick play. He's played 7 games of professional football at a mediocre level.

You've probably never seen Doak play either. So why are you so sure Doak "isn't and never will be close to Endrick"? 

That's weird. Do you think Croatian fans grow up thinking there's no way Modric can be or is close to the Brazilian midfielders of similar age? Yet he's better than any midfielder Brazil have had in what fifty years something like that? Certainly forty. 

That's weird mate. You want to have a wee think about that.

Edited December 22, 2022 by HalfCutNinja

[Replays]

He will win us at least two World Cups and that’s final.

[Crawford Bridge]

16 minutes ago, Scott-Replay said:

He will win us at least two World Cups and that’s final.

U19 and Homeless?

[Replays]

20 minutes ago, Crawford Bridge said:

U19 and Homeless?

I’d take them tbf

[RandomGuy.]

7 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

At a pish level. How do you know Doak wouldn't be doing that if he was at Ross County? And he's not even a striker anyway. 

Doak has already played for one of the biggest clubs in the world before his 17th birthday.

Endrick hasn't played above u17 at international level, Doak has already scored at u21. 

He absolutely is close to Endrick right now, that's my point. That's a comparison that should have us very excited.

I find it a bit strange that you can be so sure when I know you haven't seen either of them play. It's a bit weird. We can only analyse their development on paper so far, and there's nothing that puts Endrick ahead of Doak yet.

Ive seen both play, yes. A weirdo twitter account i follow (Harry Brooks) has been about Endrick for 12+ months so ive watched his games on WyScout when im bored to see if the guy was talking shite or not.

Doak is a great talent. Goes both ways, quick, smart. Ive zero doubt he'll earn 30+ caps for us and id be disappointed if hes not pushing for 100, tbh.

Endrick looks generational. Hes already strolling games at senior level at 16, physically, technically and mentally. Talk ive seen suggests he'll be in Brazils next senior squad, never mind the U21 squad.

Doak will likely be a fine player but he doesnt look to me like he'll be in a discussion for the worlds best player in 10 years, Endrick does. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

We’re the envy of the world with the Doakster.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Ive seen both play, yes. A weirdo twitter account i follow (Harry Brooks) has been about Endrick for 12+ months so ive watched his games on WyScout when im bored to see if the guy was talking shite or not.

Doak is a great talent. Goes both ways, quick, smart. Ive zero doubt he'll earn 30+ caps for us and id be disappointed if hes not pushing for 100, tbh.

Endrick looks generational. Hes already strolling games at senior level at 16, physically, technically and mentally. Talk ive seen suggests he'll be in Brazils next senior squad, never mind the U21 squad.

Doak will likely be a fine player but he doesnt look to me like he'll be in a discussion for the worlds best player in 10 years, Endrick does. 

I was wondering about your first statement myself, but thats a fair enough answer. Im not going to venture any kind of opinion as ive not seen enough of either of them.

Doak is making great progress already tho, getting on the bench last night shows how highly hes thought of. Ramsey too. Its exciting times for Scotland ahead. We just need a few more of these young players making the moves to englands big guns to come thru strong. Then were discussing Scotlands "golden generation"

[RandomGuy.]

16 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I was wondering about your first statement myself, but thats a fair enough answer. Im not going to venture any kind of opinion as ive not seen enough of either of them.

Doak is making great progress already tho, getting on the bench last night shows how highly hes thought of. Ramsey too. Its exciting times for Scotland ahead. We just need a few more of these young players making the moves to englands big guns to come thru strong. Then were discussing Scotlands "golden generation"

I think Doak looks great and im disappointed he couldnt play last night. He could reach the level of a Sterling for me (playing/contributing regularly for a EPL title winning side/CL contender) if he keeps it up.

Endrick is just another level though, not sure why me saying i dont think Doak will reach his level is me saying Doak is shite. I think Endrick will be better than Neymar.

[HalfCutNinja]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Ive seen both play, yes. A weirdo twitter account i follow (Harry Brooks) has been about Endrick for 12+ months so ive watched his games on WyScout when im bored to see if the guy was talking shite or not.

Doak is a great talent. Goes both ways, quick, smart. Ive zero doubt he'll earn 30+ caps for us and id be disappointed if hes not pushing for 100, tbh.

Endrick looks generational. Hes already strolling games at senior level at 16, physically, technically and mentally. Talk ive seen suggests he'll be in Brazils next senior squad, never mind the U21 squad.

Doak will likely be a fine player but he doesnt look to me like he'll be in a discussion for the worlds best player in 10 years, Endrick does. 

Pish. He's only ever played seven games. What game did you watch and when? We both know you're lying mate.  This guy was going on about him over a year ago when he'd just turned 15 and hadn't played a minute of professional football? Again, pish. Where did he even see him as a 14/15 year old in Brazil?

Strolling what? Endrick hasn't played one second of top level professional football in his life. Doak played an Old Firm game younger than Endrick is now. Doak would also be strolling games if he was still at a shit level like Endrick. But he already got his move to the top.

You made a daft statement, were called out on it and are now trying to dig your way out. I'm sure Endrick is great but he's done nothing whatsoever so far to place him ahead of Doak. Not one thing. If Doak stayed at Celtic he'd have 20 games by now and possibly be a senior international. He's a sensation. He absolutely is in the same league as people like Endrick so far.

[RandomGuy.]

12 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Where did he even see him as a 14/15 year old in Brazil?

 

He coached their youth squad.

the guy is a bit of a slaver + i love playing FM + i have access to watch all levels of Brazilian football + im tragic = me watching Endrick every chance i get.

I wont argue because i know what youre like, but theres a reason Real Madrid are willing to pay over £40m for a player they cant even play for 2 years.

[HalfCutNinja]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

He coached their youth squad.

the guy is a bit of a slaver + i love playing FM + i have access to watch all levels of Brazilian football + im tragic = me watching Endrick every chance i get.

I wont argue because i know what youre like, but theres a reason Real Madrid are willing to pay over £40m for a player they cant even play for 2 years.

Tbf good reply but I still don't believe you've seen him. Madrid are buying potential as they did with Vinicius and Rodrygo and many others over the years. Did the same for similar money with Higuain a long time ago. Turned out mince.

But again, there's still nothing that puts any of them in front of Doak so far this is my point. To this point in his career we have one of the best players in the world. There's no players of his age obviously further along in their development so far than Doak. 

Liverpool got him for 600k development fee as he was literally a school kid. Let's say Barcelona for some reason decided they absolutely had to have him in January or end of the season. You'd be looking 20-30 million or something. He absolutely is in the same stratosphere as any top player his age in the world right now. His development to this stage in his career is remarkable.

[Tartan Blood]

6 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Tbf good reply but I still don't believe you've seen him. Madrid are buying potential as they did with Vinicius and Rodrygo and many others over the years. Did the same for similar money with Higuain a long time ago. Turned out mince.

But again, there's still nothing that puts any of them in front of Doak so far this is my point. To this point in his career we have one of the best players in the world. There's no players of his age obviously further along in their development so far than Doak. 

Liverpool got him for 600k development fee as he was literally a school kid. Let's say Barcelona for some reason decided they absolutely had to have him in January or end of the season. You'd be looking 20-30 million or something. He absolutely is in the same stratosphere as any top player his age in the world right now. His development to this stage in his career is remarkable.

Sorry to jump in, but I agree with you. Even if the other guy had somehow watched all 7(?) of Endrich's games, it still couldn't be conclusive that "Doak will never be as good as him". Entirely unknowable. I'm sure Endrich is shit hot in Football Manager though.

If Doak was Brazilian, he'd be getting even more attention than he already is. He assisted and hit the post against AC Milan. He's been the most exciting player on the pitch in every age group he's played in. 

I'm long enough in the tooth to not get overly excited by potential, but this one does feel different. Even when Gauld was heralded as the Scottish Messi in his teens, that was still only for Dundee Utd in the SPFL. No disrespect, but that is very different to forcing your way onto Liverpool's bench at 16/17.

[Crawford Bridge]

3 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

We both know you're lying mate. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Tartan Blood said:

Sorry to jump in, but I agree with you. Even if the other guy had somehow watched all 7(?) of Endrich's games, it still couldn't be conclusive that "Doak will never be as good as him". Entirely unknowable. I'm sure Endrich is shit hot in Football Manager though.

If Doak was Brazilian, he'd be getting even more attention than he already is. He assisted and hit the post against AC Milan. He's been the most exciting player on the pitch in every age group he's played in. 

I'm long enough in the tooth to not get overly excited by potential, but this one does feel different. Even when Gauld was heralded as the Scottish Messi in his teens, that was still only for Dundee Utd in the SPFL. No disrespect, but that is very different to forcing your way onto Liverpool's bench at 16/17.

You're probably right, but in a way I think that's probably a good thing. The spotlight can bring alot of negative attention with the positive. Hopefully the spotlight stays on Endrick and Doakzinho can sneak past him to take the first ballon d'or

[HalfCutNinja]

31 minutes ago, Tartan Blood said:

Sorry to jump in, but I agree with you. Even if the other guy had somehow watched all 7(?) of Endrich's games, it still couldn't be conclusive that "Doak will never be as good as him". Entirely unknowable. I'm sure Endrich is shit hot in Football Manager though.

If Doak was Brazilian, he'd be getting even more attention than he already is. He assisted and hit the post against AC Milan. He's been the most exciting player on the pitch in every age group he's played in. 

I'm long enough in the tooth to not get overly excited by potential, but this one does feel different. Even when Gauld was heralded as the Scottish Messi in his teens, that was still only for Dundee Utd in the SPFL. No disrespect, but that is very different to forcing your way onto Liverpool's bench at 16/17.

Yeah, this kid had played for Celtic and Liverpool before his 17th birthday. That's remarkable. That doesn't happen. When was the last time 16.year old got a game for Liverpool? And now he's on the bench every week..

He is developing incredibly quickly. I would expect senior international debut in March with a bit of luck too. This is very far from normal even for top players. Foden wasn't at this stage at this age, neither was Rashford. 

We really do have one of Europe's most exciting talents on our hands. England don't have anyone of the same age who is as good.

Obviously at this moment it's all potential, but his potential is massive.

[Miguel Sanchez]

29 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Yeah, this kid had played for Celtic and Liverpool before his 17th birthday. That's remarkable. That doesn't happen. When was the last time 16.year old got a game for Liverpool?

Youngest debuts - LFChistory - Stats galore for Liverpool FC!

Can't wait for Bendy to become our Harvey Elliott. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The last 16 year olds to play for Celtic were Karamoko Dembele (decided he's English) and Jack Aitchison (Barnsley)

Vaunted company indeed.

[Tartan Blood]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

You're probably right, but in a way I think that's probably a good thing. The spotlight can bring alot of negative attention with the positive. Hopefully the spotlight stays on Endrick and Doakzinho can sneak past him to take the first ballon d'or

Yeah, that €60m buy out clause in Gauld's Sporting Lisbon contract, along with the Scottish Messi tag, certainly put undue pressure on him. Hopefully Doak can steer clear of that sort of hype. 

1 hour ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Yeah, this kid had played for Celtic and Liverpool before his 17th birthday. That's remarkable. That doesn't happen. When was the last time 16.year old got a game for Liverpool? And now he's on the bench every week..

He is developing incredibly quickly. I would expect senior international debut in March with a bit of luck too. This is very far from normal even for top players. Foden wasn't at this stage at this age, neither was Rashford. 

We really do have one of Europe's most exciting talents on our hands. England don't have anyone of the same age who is as good.

Obviously at this moment it's all potential, but his potential is massive.

I wouldn't be too quick to be handing him a Scotland callup. But you never know. Certainly no harm in taking him along to join in the training to give Steve Clarke a glimpse of the future first hand.

Celtic literally played him in an Old Firm match to try and convince him to stay. As far as I know that has never happened before. Possibly with the exception of Karamoko Dembele, but I don't think they were quite as desperate to keep him. That was more to make him feel appreciated(?). Dembele's stature will go against him, unfortunately. Doak has no ceiling that I can see.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Tartan Blood

[Satoshi]

Wait, wait, wait - Higuain turned out mince?

You fucking what?

I'd be delighted if Doak has the career Higuain had.

I think Real would be delighted if Endrick has the career Higuain had.

Just the 6 league titles across Spain and Italy...

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, Tartan Blood said:

I'm sure Endrich is shit hot in Football Manager though.

Yes, im sure Real Madrid just made a 16yo their 6th most expensive signing of all time because hes good in a game.