Türkiye Vs Scotland friendly, 16th November

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

I’d hope he remembers our performances against Serbia, Denmark, England, Israel, Austria etc in which they combined well with a back 5.

If either are unavailable, switch to a back 4.

Israel? What game have we ever played well?

We will get a good idea from this game what his plans are going forward. Personally I think you are incorrect, I certainly hope you are anyway. We have been worked out and exposed playing the 5 recently, we've improved and I would hope we move forward with that improvement. Rather than back to what was going wrong.

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

I'd love to see Tierney play further forward with Robertson playing in his normal position as left of a 4.

I think Tierney has it in him to play that left winger role. Could be a complete disaster but worth a try IMO, especially since we seem to be lacking wide attackers/wingers until the likes of Doak and Anderson come in and body the footballing world

Absolutely its worth a try. The formation thats working is well worth experimenting with. Good players can play with good players.

Personally I think people are underrating Tierney and Robertson here. Opposition teams would be terrified coming up against that on a left hand side.

[The Master]

On 08/11/2022 at 14:45, craigkillie said:

I don't actually think these games are part of the centralised UEFA contract - the England friendly, and whichever other one we end up setting up during our odd week out in qualifying will be, but I think this one is similar to the Netherlands and Luxembourg ones before the Euros in that they will be sold to the highest bidder. I wonder if BBC Scotland will end up showing it.

All friendlies are now part of the centralised deals for qualifiers and the Nations League. Such games are shown by whoever owns the rights for the primary purpose of the window (i.e., qualifiers or NL).

This friendly is an oddity, being played when there isn’t a wider window. However, it seems unlikely that Sky would have picked up this game, and Ireland’s, on an ad-hoc basis, especially with both being given minimal coverage.

This is the sort of game that might well have turned up on the Daily Record website had the rights been up for grabs, such is the level of interest. 

It’s possible these are part of the previous rights cycle and should have been played in June, but were displaced by the rescheduling of the Nations League to make way for the World Cup. 

[Loominous]

9 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

You weren't impressed with the performances in our recent home victory over Ireland. And away draw with Ukraine?

I wasn't particularly impressed by the performances against Ireland at Hampden or Ukraine in Poland.  If Parrott had scored hit sitter for Ireland and we'd drawn 2-2 or if Yarmolenko had scored his sitter and we'd lost to Ukraine 1-0 I don't think we could argue the results as unfair.

The results were fantastic but I have seen us play at least as well if not better in games prior to the matches last September, that's just how I see it.

9 hours ago, BFTD said:

 there've been a number of games where we've not been great, but the team often manages to get a result regardless, which isn't a skill we've always had in the past.

I'd never really thought about it that way, but I agree with that - his team do have an ability to pull a result out of the fire at times in spite of their performance. It feels to me like a team that can generally be trusted.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Loominous

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

I’m glad that we now have the back 4 in our repertoire but when Tierney and Robertson are both available, we should be playing a 5. They’re our two best players and we play our best football when they’re combining down the left.

 

10 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Im hopeful Clarke can remember the recent Ukraine games, and our wildly different performances and results better than some fans.

We didn't have the combination of Tierney and Robertson available for any of the three Ukraine games.

Edited November 15, 2022 by craigkillie

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

I wasn't particularly impressed by the performances against Ireland at Hampden or Ukraine in Poland.  If Parrott had scored hit sitter for Ireland and we'd drawn 2-2 or if Yarmolenko had scored his sitter and we'd lost to Ukraine 1-0 I don't think we could argue the results as unfair.

The results were fantastic but I have seen us play at least as well if not better in games prior to the matches last September, that's just how I see it.

Indeed, but this is basically an admission that you've not seen them play as well against the same opposition, in our very recent history. Playing a different formation.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, craigkillie said:

 

We didn't have the combination of Tierney and Robertson available for any of the three Ukraine games.

I didn't say we did

[Loominous]

17 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Indeed, but this is basically an admission that you've not seen them play as well against the same opposition, in our very recent history. Playing a different formation.

 

The best I've seen Scotland perform against Ukraine under Steve Clarke was the 3-0 win at Hampden and the best I've seen Scotland perform against Ireland (under Steve Clarke) was the 2-1 win at Hampden.

There were several variables that changed between June and September including the formation. I don't know to what extent the change in formation affected the performances and results and therefore I would stop short of highlight that solely as the reason personally.  Correlation does not imply causation I think is the phrase most people use to sum that up.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

The best I've seen Scotland perform against Ukraine under Steve Clarke was the 3-0 win at Hampden and the best I've seen Scotland perform against Ireland (under Steve Clarke) was the 2-1 win at Hampden.

There were several variables that changed between June and September including the formation. I don't know to what extent the change in formation affected the performances and results and therefore I would stop short of highlight that solely as the reason personally.  Correlation does not imply causation I think is the phrase most people use to sum that up.

What else do you think would be such a factor? The weather? What they had for dinner?

Some personel differences perhaps??

The main thing that changed was perfectly obvious. The formation.

I dont believe you actually don't accept this tbh, your just arguing for the sake of it now. Which never leads anywhere good.

Your a fan of Steve Clarke he said specifically after the Ukraine game. "Instead of taking a step forward this week, we’ve taken a giant leap. We've found another way to play"

ANOTHER WAY TO PLAY

So steves pretty clear on what was different.

 

 

[BFTD]

He might have just meant that he asked them to try scoring a few goals TBF.

I know it's a bit of a stretch but, knowing footballers, not entirely out of the question either.

[Loominous]

51 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

What else do you think would be such a factor? The weather? What they had for dinner?

Some personel differences perhaps??

 

• 5 Players started both matches for Scotland at home to Ukraine so the two Scotland teams in terms of personnel weren't consistent.
• 5 Players started both matches for Ukraine away to Scotland so the two Ukraine teams in terms of personnel weren't consistent.
• The circumstances and emotion around the Ukraine seemed more intense in June.
• Ukraine's performances were also not consistent between the two games.
• The June games at the end of a long season perhaps didn't suit Scotland in the same way as the September games at the start of the season.

A handful of the multiple factors that could be considered for the improved results in September. The formation changed along with other factors so I don't really see a basis to distinguish one variable as being more significant than another.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Loominous

[lubo_blaha]

Israel? What game have we ever played well?
We will get a good idea from this game what his plans are going forward. Personally I think you are incorrect, I certainly hope you are anyway. We have been worked out and exposed playing the 5 recently, we've improved and I would hope we move forward with that improvement. Rather than back to what was going wrong.

The back five wasn’t going wrong when Tierney and Robertson have been available, unless you can provide me with a few examples of that being the case.

We don’t have anyone similar to these two so it can fall down when one isn’t available. At that point, the four is the way to go. We shouldn’t be wedded to the 5 but when those two are playing then it’s the best option imo.

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 hours ago, Loominous said:

 

• 5 Players started both matches for Scotland at home to Ukraine so the two Scotland teams in terms of personnel weren't consistent.
• 5 Players started both matches for Ukraine away to Scotland so the two Ukraine teams in terms of personnel weren't consistent.
• The circumstances and emotion around the Ukraine seemed more intense in June.
• Ukraine's performances were also not consistent between the two games.
• The June games at the end of a long season perhaps didn't suit Scotland in the same way as the September games at the start of the season.

A handful of the multiple factors that could be considered for the improved results in September. The formation changed along with other factors so I don't really see a basis to distinguish one variable as being more significant than another.

If you think any of these points are anywhere near as much as a factor was then I'd say your either just lying or know very little about football.

At this point your arguing with the Scotland manager, not me.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, lubo_blaha said:

The back five wasn’t going wrong when Tierney and Robertson have been available, unless you can provide me with a few examples of that being the case.

We don’t have anyone similar to these two so it can fall down when one isn’t available. At that point, the four is the way to go. We shouldn’t be wedded to the 5 but when those two are playing then it’s the best option imo.

Yeah tbf your making some decent points, im sure there are games where Tierney and Robertson played where we didn't do that well. But i think your opinion is fair enough.

Personally I'd rather stick with the 4, I think its improved us.

[Loominous]

29 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

If you think any of these points are anywhere near as much as a factor was then I'd say your either just lying or know very little about football.

At this point your arguing with the Scotland manager, not me.

Well half the team was changed for both sides so yeah I think that could have been a big factor. I'm hesitant to overplay the change in formation partly due to the performance in the subsequent matches against Ireland and Ukraine (away). It's a small sample really and we'll get a better idea as more games are played. I don't think that's unfair.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

Well half the team was changed for both sides so yeah I think that could have been a big factor. I'm hesitant to overplay the change in formation partly due to the performance in the subsequent matches against Ireland and Ukraine (away). It's a small sample really and we'll get a better idea as more games are played. I don't think that's unfair.

Again, i just don't believe you. The biggest factor was obvious, anyone could see it. Including our manager.

 

[Loominous]

5 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Again, i just don't believe you. The biggest factor was obvious, anyone could see it. Including our manager.

 

That's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. I'll be interested to see where the conversation will move if we get a disappointing result or two playing a back4. 

[craigkillie]

We played a full qualifying group with a back five and had our best performance in a group in over two decades, the idea that it's a busted flush is ludicrous. I'd guess we'll see it appear again.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, craigkillie said:

We played a full qualifying group with a back five and had our best performance in a group in over two decades, the idea that it's a busted flush is ludicrous. I'd guess we'll see it appear again.

You judge the performances of the the team against the above the players. Judging against previous squads with different players is ludicrous.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

That's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. I'll be interested to see where the conversation will move if we get a disappointing result or two playing a back4. 

Tbh you've been following me around the forum like a bad smell disagreeing with everything ever since you decided to jump on the Steve Clarke bandwagon.  So its not really a surprise I think your making your opinion up just to disagree.