Proposed tier 5 Central League

[Marten]

4 hours ago, Lowland team said:

its was raised last Tuesday at the npg by the sjfa.the chair of the meeting immediately told them it would need to go to the pyramid working group heard both sos.and eos vetoed it straight away.am still trying to work out how the sjfa are allowed at these meetings when its for leagues which they are not..

There are 2 leagues in the pyramid that ultimately come under the SJFA, the Midlands League & North Region League. They are actually run by the ERJFA & NRJFA respectively, but these come under the SJFA.

No chance of this plan happening. I would assume that this is more an attempt by West clubs to get into tier 6 faster than that it has anything to do with the clubs up here..

[Gordon EF]

3 hours ago, edinabear said:

League 2 should be expanded to 18 teams with 3 tier 5 leagues, LL East, LL West and Highland feeding into it.

All with automatic promotion from each plus a playoff between the 2nd places and 15th in League Two.

Easy! Haha 

That would be absolutely cracking.

Tier 5 should always have been split into 3 following the old Junior region boundaries.

[LongTimeLurker]

...my recollection (others disagree) is that the junior superleagues were said at the time to have been organised the way they were partly in anticipation of that happening down the road. What happened later with Tom Johnston and 150k toilet blocks was unfortunate to say the least. An east - west LL split at tier 5 makes more sense at this point than the SJFA running a parallel feeder. It's too bad clubs in the east didn't more carefully consider what was in their long term interests when Option Z was proposed by the SFA board but junior vs senior rant seethe.....

[Bad Wolf]

I'd actually be in favour of a "central" league sitting alongside the Highland and Lowland leagues; based on geography, not "mon ra joonyurs!" special-ness. With clubs from Fife, Clacks, Tayside, Falkirk and Stirling districts etc. Ayrshire teams will remain in the LL catchment area, on account of being located in the lowlands. 

[JOEY VIMSANTE]

I think it is a good idea. Central Scotland should have a tier 5 league. 

 

[cmontheloknow]

55 minutes ago, JOEY VIMSANTE said:

I think it is a good idea. Central Scotland should have a tier 5 league. 

 

Jeez - this is an SJFA trojan horse and little more.

[PossilYM]

I doubt the SJFA meant a geographical area with the nickname "Central League".

More to do with the East/West/North top clubs getting another chance of progressing up the pyramid plus later entry into the big Scottish rather starting at the preliminaries.

[PossilYM]

14 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...my recollection (others disagree) is that the junior superleagues were said at the time to have been organised the way they were partly in anticipation of that happening down the road. What happened later with Tom Johnston and 150k toilet blocks was unfortunate to say the least. An east - west LL split at tier 5 makes more sense at this point than the SJFA running a parallel feeder. It's too bad clubs in the east didn't more carefully consider what was in their long term interests when Option Z was proposed by the SFA board but junior vs senior rant seethe.....

Correct 

Problem is the first i heard of it in the West, as in talk of a pyramid,  was the time lapse from start to the present day.

Heard a rumour of a pyramid in 2000 followed the West Super leagues in 2002.

Then nothing till more talk as the LL was set up in 2013.

Then nearly another decade passed till 2020.

A season was completely lost obviously to Covid.

Should sort itself by 2040.

 

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

League 2 should be expanded to 18 teams with 3 tier 5 leagues, LL East, LL West and Highland feeding into it.
All with automatic promotion from each plus a playoff between the 2nd places and 15th in League Two.
Easy! Haha 

Far too sensible

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Personally think the only way round this will be a Lowland League 2. Then two up two down from there.

Kelty and Bonnyrigg already promoted and Tranent making a fist of it this year too. Bo’ness are the only team who have been promoted who have been poor, maybe partly due to the plastic pitch, maybe due to Athletic reducing their fan base. Either way it’s enjoyable to watch.

The last three teams to be relegated from the LL are Vale of Leithen (bottom of East Premier currently), Whitehill Welfare (2nd bottom of Division 1 currently) and Hawick Royal Albert (bottom for Division 2 currently).

Even looking at whose come down, the Shire, Berwick and Cowdenbeath 12th, 15th and 16th in the Lowland League.

It’s embarrassing that it’s taking so long to allow movement - it’s no wonder daft ideas like rival leagues start to surface.

[Ginaro]

8 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

Personally think the only way round this will be a Lowland League 2. Then two up two down from there.

The only way around what? What problem would a LL2 solve, that automatically promoting the EOS/WOS champions wouldn't solve?

Edited November 3, 2022 by Ginaro

[FairWeatherFan]

Not sure why you'd go to the trouble of ripping up the West & East Premiers. Not necessarily on merit due to licensing. 

Then leave it at 2up/2down. 

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

The only way around what? What problem would a LL2 solve, that automatically promoting the EOS/WOS champions wouldn't solve?

I’m going on what seems to be a reluctance to go for any more than 1 place down.

That there’s about 10 teams in the leagues below that are currently skelping the LL teams out the cups everytime they play them. It’s false position and a shite pyramid and it’s there for all to see.

I’d sooner see a strong LL2 formed underneath with the top 8 from each of the West and East the LL if it’s sticking with 1 up 1 down than wait a decade for those teams to eventually filter up. For me we are missing a really good product by watching it trickle.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Not sure why you'd go to the trouble of ripping up the West & East Premiers. Not necessarily on merit due to licensing. 
Then leave it at 2up/2down. 

By the end of this season nearly all will be licensed.

Any more than 2 up 2 down will have the LL clubs inviting Hibs to join the league.

[PossilYM]

15 hours ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

Personally think the only way round this will be a Lowland League 2. Then two up two down from there.

Kelty and Bonnyrigg already promoted and Tranent making a fist of it this year too. Bo’ness are the only team who have been promoted who have been poor, maybe partly due to the plastic pitch, maybe due to Athletic reducing their fan base. Either way it’s enjoyable to watch.

The last three teams to be relegated from the LL are Vale of Leithen (bottom of East Premier currently), Whitehill Welfare (2nd bottom of Division 1 currently) and Hawick Royal Albert (bottom for Division 2 currently).

Even looking at whose come down, the Shire, Berwick and Cowdenbeath 12th, 15th and 16th in the Lowland League.

It’s embarrassing that it’s taking so long to allow movement - it’s no wonder daft ideas like rival leagues start to surface.

Other posters on here have promoted the idea of LL2 over the last few years.

Certainly would gave the present weakest teams in the LL some sort of safety net at least for another season if there's a LL2.

 

 

[Spyro]

Just scrap the LL and expand L2... 

18 teams in L2 (so a bit more secure) with 3 automatic relegations (so it isn't), the winners of the HL, EoS prem and WoS prem all go up

Then a 4 way Playoff with the winners of SOS and the 2nd placed teams in EoS, WoS and HL with the winner playing 4th bottom of L2 for the final place. 

 

Top few teams of the current LL can go up now and the other can go into their relevant regional leagues but still at tier 5

[FairWeatherFan]

LL2 made sense when there was no WOSFL. 

Now it doesn't. Streamlining the Lowland area Tier 6 to 16 teams. Instead of of the 32 + South we have is just another bottleneck between equitable clubs and creates a false tier. 

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Just scrap the LL and expand L2...

Even if the SPFL doesn't want to expand splitting the LL into east and west is probably the best way ahead if Club 41 could be factored in on relegation in addition to Club 42 in a similar manner to how relegation and playoffs work higher up the SPFL. One automatic relegation for Club 42 then the three tier 5 champions and Club 41 playoff for two SPFL places the following season. Three rather than two tier 5 feeders balances the populations involved much better but the problem in blazer politics terms is what to do with the SoS. It probably should wind up beng a feeder to the third division of the WoS alongside the WoS fourth division but is unlikely to accept that status.

[PossilYM]

18 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Even if the SPFL doesn't want to expand splitting the LL into east and west is probably the best way ahead if Club 41 could be factored in on relegation in addition to Club 42 in a similar manner to how relegation and playoffs work higher up the SPFL. One automatic relegation for Club 42 then the three tier 5 champions and Club 41 playoff for two SPFL places the following season. Three rather than two tier 5 feeders balances the populations involved much better but the problem in blazer politics terms is what to do with the SoS. It probably should wind up beng a feeder to the third division of the WoS alongside the WoS fourth division but is unlikely to accept that status.

Get what you mean but can imagine the Sosfl would quite rightly tell the Wosfl to eff off.

The newbies in the Wosfl can hardly say much really to the rest of the leagues.

Especially all those ex Juniors who waited to there was no other choice but to join the world of Scottish non league football.

[craigkillie]

35 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

LL2 made sense when there was no WOSFL. 

Now it doesn't. Streamlining the Lowland area Tier 6 to 16 teams. Instead of of the 32 + South we have is just another bottleneck between equitable clubs and creates a false tier. 

It's not really a bottleneck if there is appropriate promotion and relegation. The bottleneck isn't caused by the size or number of leagues, but rather by the lack of movement.

Having said that, I don't think there's any need for another Lowland-wide division.