Pollok v Annan Athletic Scottish Cup

[parsforlife]

I think the big issue is lack of crush barriers which means despite the fairly large terracing it’s meant to only be 4 deep.   There will be a number of other factors like marked gangways, managing movement between covered and uncovered areas etc

I don’t think they need to do massive changes or move,  but I could see a gradual number of changes to slowly being improve the ground and the extra capacity that provides, kinda one of the aims in licensing tbf

[Lokloyal]

On 26/10/2022 at 22:02, parsforlife said:

I think the big issue is lack of crush barriers which means despite the fairly large terracing it’s meant to only be 4 deep.   There will be a number of other factors like marked gangways, managing movement between covered and uncovered areas etc

I don’t think they need to do massive changes or move,  but I could see a gradual number of changes to slowly being improve the ground and the extra capacity that provides, kinda one of the aims in licensing tbf

Newlandsfield with a bit of investment would be an outstanding ground.The location is unbeatable.The club has plenty of well connected and qualified people behind the scenes so the expertise is there but doesn’t have access to the big pot of cash needed to do the work.

Perhaps a phased approach of dealing with terracing /ground upgrading section by section is the way forward and another fundraising venture similar to the lights with the fans.

 

[jimbaxters]

40 minutes ago, Lokloyal said:

Newlandsfield with a bit of investment would be an outstanding ground.The location is unbeatable.The club has plenty of well connected and qualified people behind the scenes so the expertise is there but doesn’t have access to the big pot of cash needed to do the work.

Perhaps a phased approach of dealing with terracing /ground upgrading section by section is the way forward and another fundraising venture similar to the lights with the fans.

 

Fitting in with the title of this thread, just go on and win the Scottish Cup and the cash will be there.

[Lokloyal]

7 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Fitting in with the title of this thread, just go on and win the Scottish Cup and the cash will be there.

If only…

[Bestsinceslicebread]

23 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Fitting in with the title of this thread, just go on and win the Scottish Cup and the cash will be there.

Seeing that if they get put out by Ayr they would have made somewhere in the region of £29,000 for their Scottish cup endeavors then I think they have done fantastic cash wise.  In fact I cant see any team from the west not doing well, cash wise so, even the bens who had to travel to Fort William, Wick and stayed over night in a hotel, they still made money

Edited October 29, 2022 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 28/10/2022 at 10:52, Lokloyal said:

Newlandsfield with a bit of investment would be an outstanding ground.The location is unbeatable.The club has plenty of well connected and qualified people behind the scenes so the expertise is there but doesn’t have access to the big pot of cash needed to do the work.

Perhaps a phased approach of dealing with terracing /ground upgrading section by section is the way forward and another fundraising venture similar to the lights with the fans.

 

Lets not pretend Lok arent paying massive wages out to people, its not that you dont have the funds its that you use them to pay players and theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

[Lokloyal]

26 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Lets not pretend Lok arent paying massive wages out to people, its not that you dont have the funds its that you use them to pay players and theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

I am not privy to the figures but don’t think they will differ in any great way from those being paid by Auchinleck,Cumnock etc and will be much less than those paid at Darvel.Agree the club no doubt has capital funds but it’s the size of that amount required to redevelop the ground which is the issue.As I said it would have to be a gradual phased process.

[BANKIEBILL]

23 hours ago, Lokloyal said:

I am not privy to the figures but don’t think they will differ in any great way from those being paid by Auchinleck,Cumnock etc and will be much less than those paid at Darvel.Agree the club no doubt has capital funds but it’s the size of that amount required to redevelop the ground which is the issue.As I said it would have to be a gradual phased process.

Well indeed. You probably could do work to get capacity up substantially for tens of thousands. To totally redevelop the place you'd start to talk hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the scale and nature of the work. 

A Scottish Cup run - unless it's daftly successful ( Old Firm away ) - doesn't cover the capacity work. It's great and welcome income but not life changing. 

Incremental work on priorities is definitely the way to go. You'd think upping the capacity would be a priority given the money that is being foregone with the gates being capped but Pollok are best placed to gauge that properly. 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

58 minutes ago, BANKIEBILL said:

Well indeed. You probably could do work to get capacity up substantially for tens of thousands. To totally redevelop the place you'd start to talk hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the scale and nature of the work. 

A Scottish Cup run - unless it's daftly successful ( Old Firm away ) - doesn't cover the capacity work. It's great and welcome income but not life changing. 

Incremental work on priorities is definitely the way to go. You'd think upping the capacity would be a priority given the money that is being foregone with the gates being capped but Pollok are best placed to gauge that properly. 

Unless you get into the 4th round and happen to get one of the big teams away then its major money, money which would easily cover a top WOSFL team for 10 odd years

[Wile E Coyote]

6 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Unless you get into the 4th round and happen to get one of the big teams away then its major money, money which would easily cover a top WOSFL team for 10 odd years

Utter pish. Talbot have had that, Hearts away (probably the 3rd best away draw you can get) and while its a decent amount of money its about 2 years costs at best, nothing like 10 years

[BANKIEBILL]

7 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Utter pish. Talbot have had that, Hearts away (probably the 3rd best away draw you can get) and while its a decent amount of money its about 2 years costs at best, nothing like 10 years

Aye its only really a full house at Ibrox or Parkhead ( unlikely for a game v a non-league team ) that could be described as transformative. Absolutely thrilling to be involved with those games though I'm sure and very welcome income esp pre-Darvel.

[BANKIEBILL]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Unless you get into the 4th round and happen to get one of the big teams away then its major money, money which would easily cover a top WOSFL team for 10 odd years

If you draw Hearts away ( as Talbot did twice I think ) then say you have 16000 paying average of 18 quid ( adult and concessions balanced ) then that gives gate money of £288000. After certain costs you get 40% as away team so at those figs you'd mibbee get a chq for a shade over £110k. Id contend that wouldn't cover Talbot's wage bill for 1 season never mind 10. 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 30/10/2022 at 12:21, Wile E Coyote said:

Utter pish. Talbot have had that, Hearts away (probably the 3rd best away draw you can get) and while its a decent amount of money its about 2 years costs at best, nothing like 10 years

Pish, please don't say things like pish just ask me where I get my facts and information from, thats all you have to do.
I'll gladly put it up there for you to rip it to shreds, I don't mind if they are wrong but I'm going by current valuations and fluctuation of inflation etc... to work our 10 year ago and 4 year ago prices.

I have no idea of what Auchinleck wage bill is or their incomings and outgoings of income etc... so I don't know what it takes to run each year but if Auchinleck get Celtic or Rangers away, (the two biggest attendance teams), I would say the final money listed below you could times that by 5 or 6 times at the very least

 

Oh ffs I wished id a stayed working on my Maaths, anyways, here goes.

Lets work it out
Auchinleck Talbot away to Hearts on the 7th January 2012 in round 4 of the Scottish cup
Attendance was 8985 so lets just say ticket prices were £20, (could it be £15 but I'm sure I'm being under by stating £20)
That works out at £177,900 gate money
Take SFA 5% which is £8895
Leaving £169,005
Take off 20% for home gate £33,801
Leaving £135,204 split between both teams given Talbot £67,602.
So off the cuff, Talbot earned from that one game alone £67,602
Now the current price for live tv games in round 4 is currently at £24,000 per team.  Now the game was not on live TV, but if it was I'm sure the offer would have been around £18,000 to roundabout £20,000.

Hypothetically now just on that one game alone Auchinleck Talbot, (including Tv money), would have amassed somewhere in the region of £87,000, give or take a couple of thousand either side. The exit money for round 4 is £19,600 and I expect it would have been closer to £15,000, making Talbot could have came out with over £100,000

 

Now another one with same teams
Auchinleck Talbot away to Hearts on the 10th of February 2019 in round 5 of the Scottish cup
Attendance was 14,946 so let's just say ticket prices were, again, £20
That works out at £298,920 gate money
Take SFA 5% which is £14,946
Leaving £283,974
Take off 20% for home gate £56,794
Leaving £227179 split between both teams given Talbot £113,589.
So, off the cuff, Talbot earned from that one game alone £113,589
Now the current price for live tv games in round 5 is currently at £24,000 per team.  Now the game was not on live TV, but if it was, I'm sure the offer would have been between £20,000 to £22,000.

Hypothetically now just on that one game alone Auchinleck Talbot, (including Tv money), would have amassed somewhere in the region of £133,589, give or take a couple of thousand either side.
I've not added the exit from round 5 money which currently stands at £47,250, so I'd expect another £40,000 added to the potentially £133,589 making it £173,589.

Hopefully the way I've worked it out is correct


The whole point in the Scottish for these teams are to push their limits and see how they do all the time, generating greater visibility and including support and if your lucks and hard work,  works in, then an away draw against either Celtic or Rangers could happen.

If Auchinleck can generate possibly about £130,000 odd from one game, imagine what they can do with Rangers or Celtic cause I guarantee the prices per person will be higher and the crowd will be higher than Hearts can amass

 

As stated above Pollok, if they are put out at Round 3 by Ayr United stand to make somewhere in the region of about £29,000

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bestsinceslicebread
Deleting double sentences at 'TV Money'

[Bestsinceslicebread]

18 hours ago, BANKIEBILL said:

If you draw Hearts away ( as Talbot did twice I think ) then say you have 16000 paying average of 18 quid ( adult and concessions balanced ) then that gives gate money of £288000. After certain costs you get 40% as away team so at those figs you'd mibbee get a chq for a shade over £110k. Id contend that wouldn't cover Talbot's wage bill for 1 season never mind 10. 

I'm more going by getting Celtic or Rangers away if being fair, so I'll take that

Yes agreed, you would NOT get a full house from either team but full-on fans, you'd get about 35,000 to 40,000 crowd

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Lokloyal]

Going back to costings-as Bill says the monies required for a club to self-fund redevelopment of its own stadium are very significant.Even re-laying and adding in crash barriers to the whole of the uncovered terrace at Newlandsfield would be very heavily into six figures I would think.

[Wile E Coyote]

32 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Pish, please don't say things like pish just ask me where I get my facts and information from, thats all you have to do.
I'll gladly put it up there for you to rip it to shreds, I don't mind if they are wrong but I'm going by current valuations and fluctuation of inflation etc... to work our 10 year ago and 4 year ago prices.

I have no idea of what Auchinleck wage bill is or their incomings and outgoings of income etc... so I don't know what it takes to run each year but if Auchinleck get Celtic or Rangers away, (the two biggest attendance teams), I would say the final money listed below you could times that by 5 or 6 times at the very least

 

Oh ffs I wished id a stayed working on my Maaths, anyways, here goes.

Lets work it out
Auchinleck Talbot away to Hearts on the 7th January 2012 in round 4 of the Scottish cup
Attendance was 8985 so lets just say ticket prices were £20, (could it be £15 but I'm sure I'm being under by stating £20)
That works out at £177,900 gate money
Take SFA 5% which is £8895
Leaving £169,005
Take off 20% for home gate £33,801
Leaving £135,204 split between both teams given Talbot £67,602.
So off the cuff, Talbot earned from that one game alone £67,602
Now the current price for live tv games in round 4 is currently at £24,000 per team.  Now the game was not on live TV, but if it was I'm sure the offer would have been around £18,000 to roundabout £20,000.

Hypothetically now just on that one game alone Auchinleck Talbot, (including Tv money), would have amassed somewhere in the region of £87,000, give or take a couple of thousand either side.

 

Now another one with same teams
Auchinleck Talbot away to Hearts on the 10th of February 2019 in round 5 of the Scottish cup
Attendance was 14,946 so let's just say ticket prices were, again, £20
That works out at £298,920 gate money
Take SFA 5% which is £14,946
Leaving £283,974
Take off 20% for home gate £56,794
Leaving £227179 split between both teams given Talbot £113,589.
So, off the cuff, Talbot earned from that one game alone £113,589
Now the current price for live tv games in round 4 is currently at £24,000 per team.  Now the game was not on live TV, but if it was, I'm sure the offer would have been roundabout £20,000.

Hypothetically now just on that one game alone Auchinleck Talbot, (including Tv money), would have amassed somewhere in the region of £133,589, give or take a couple of thousand either side.
I've not added the exit from round 5 money which currently stands at £47,250, so I'd expect another £40,000 added to the potentially £133,589 making it £173,589.

Hopefully the way I've worked it out is correct


The whole point in the Scottish for these teams are to push their limits and see how they do all the time, generating greater visibility and including support and if your lucks and hard work,  works in, then an away draw against either Celtic or Rangers could happen.

If Auchinleck can generate possibly about £130,000 odd from one game, imagine what they can do with Rangers or Celtic cause I guarantee the prices per person will be higher and the crowd will be higher than Hearts can amass

 

As stated above Pollok, if they are put out at Round 3 by Ayr United stand to make somewhere in the region of about £29,000

 

Ticket prices were £15 for the 1st Hearts game (can't remember what they were for the 2nd game). As you say there was no live TV coverage.

So Talbot got one of the best draws financially possible and made less than 6 figures. All top non league teams have wage bills into 6 figures so they made less than one years operating costs. Absolutely nowhere near the 10 years you quoted.

As fo drawing the old firm you will get a crowd of 25,000 at most probably paying £25. Yes there will be TV coverage (Premier Sports are OF TV basically).

You might make about 350,000 so 3 years operating costs, again nowhere near the 10 years you quoted

PS I apologise for saying utter pish. I should have worded it better but your statement of 10 years is absolutely way out

Edited October 30, 2022 by Wile E Coyote

[Bestsinceslicebread]

13 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Ticket prices were £15 for the 1st Hearts game (can't remember what they were for the 2nd game). As you say there was no live TV coverage.

So Talbot got one of the best draws financially possible and made less than 6 figures. All top non league teams have wage bills into 6 figures so they made less than one years operating costs. Absolutely nowhere near the 10 years you quoted.

As fo drawing the old firm you will get a crowd of 25,000 at most probably paying £25. Yes there will be TV coverage (Premier Sports are OF TV basically).

You might make about 350,000 so 3 years operating costs, again nowhere near the 10 years you quoted

As I said, I don't know Auchinlecks operating costs, so ill go with you, its always good for fans who know more in-depth details.
I'll probably say the teams with the biggest ins and outs, operating costs are Darvel, Auchinleck, Pollok? and then the rest lower costs as you go down each division and so on, so yeah a big draw might as you say for a club like those 3 maybe 3 years but then, lower down the premier and then the first etc... it will go to 5,8,10 years and more for many clubs.  When I'm putting my stuff on here, I picked out Auchinleck as an example it gave a few games with different attendances but I'm also thinking of teams like Irvine Meadow, Benburb, Drumchapel United, which for these clubs the same scenario is huge, some even lower down the leagues the payments will cover up to or beyond 10 years.

I'm sure the prices were £20 and then concessions but I don't have the facts for the 2019 game but think in the region of £120,000 was made, nearing £133,000 if my facts were correct, which I doubt 

Its hypothetically from both myself and you regarding size of crowd and ticket prices if WOSFL teams makes through and draws Celtic or Rangers away but I think differently, I'd say about 10,000 more for drawing the old firm, (35,000 to 40,000 and I do think the ticket prices for the Scottish cup would be higher than £25 as fans will still pay that) but that's my view I suppose until it happens, depending on the club etc... so many permutations' so defiantly hypothetical.
 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bestsinceslicebread

[paul-r-cfc]

Don't know about Rangers, but Celtic have a home cup ticket scheme which most fans have now been sucked into as it is harder to get in-demand cup tickets without signing up. If you are in that, you are automatically billed for home cup tickets and the match is added to your season ticket. In that case, even if not everyone turned up, the gate is guaranteed to be at least the number of scheme members. Which is pretty significant.

[PossilYM]

If Pollok average crowd for 15 league home games is say 600 on average at say £7 at time allowing for concessions and season ticket holders that comes out at £4200 per game.

15 league games at £4200 is 63K.

Plus anything else they can make out the catering/raffles/commercial side of things.

The one catering outlet Pollok have must be busiest in Scottish non league football.

Got to think a 15K profit over a season is not unreasonable.

And that's before any possible money from any Cup competitions.

And before a player sees a penny basic running costs need to be taken into account.

Yes a 6 figure going in but the costs leave no profit.

And it's all done with cadre of non paid volunteers.

Pollok would really need to reach a couple of Scottish Cup Finals to pay for basic ground improvements.

Lesser Hampden doesn't seem so far fetched long term.