Dropped

[Bing.McCrosby]

30 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Why does this goon keep going on about Brazil’s starting left back 

Brazil have also got left backs playing for Juve & Sevilla who are more likely to play. They’ve got a ton of quality throughout the side. I don’t think they’ll be that arsed and it’s hardly comparable. If Neymar was spending weeks on the bench they’d maybe be a bit more concerned.

No no no, you're completely wrong. They would be overjoyed with neymar on the bench. As not playing is the new playing or something.

We also need to discuss Brazil's starting left back in much more detail, it should have a thread of its own.

[Satoshi]

21 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Why does this goon keep going on about Brazil’s starting left back 

Brazil have also got left backs playing for Juve & Sevilla who are more likely to play. They’ve got a ton of quality throughout the side. I don’t think they’ll be that arsed and it’s hardly comparable. If Neymar was spending weeks on the bench they’d maybe be a bit more concerned.

It's quite obvious why - every national team faces the same challenge, it's not unique to Scotland. In modern top level football almost no player plays every minutes, there is a lot of rotation as standard.

The idea that Scotland, a nation of just over 5 million people, should not be affected by this is absolutely ludicrous, it happens to even the largest nations with the most top level players.

As for the other left backs, Alex Telles (a Man Utd reject) is 5 years older than Renan Lodi with half the number of caps. Sevilla are having a horrendous season and are one place about the relegation spots, on goal difference only. Telles has managed 90 minutes in the league three times all season (they got one point for those three games).

Alex Sandro might play, Juve are also having a dreadful season, but he's 31 with only 37 caps so far from guaranteed. In the last three years he has 14 caps to Renan Lodis 12 - Alex Telles has 7.

McTominay has comfortably more minutes than Fred, who is guaranteed to be in the Brazil squad and has a decent chance of playing.

Of course it's comparable, the whole point is that every nation suffers the same issue - the best players play at the best clubs, the best clubs rotate their players. If they want only guys that play 90 minutes every week, their team would be far worse. As for Brazil having a better star player than us? No shit

[Bing.McCrosby]

41 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

It's quite obvious why - every national team faces the same challenge, it's not unique to Scotland. In modern top level football almost no player plays every minutes, there is a lot of rotation as standard.

The idea that Scotland, a nation of just over 5 million people, should not be affected by this is absolutely ludicrous, it happens to even the largest nations with the most top level players.

As for the other left backs, Alex Telles (a Man Utd reject) is 5 years older than Renan Lodi with half the number of caps. Sevilla are having a horrendous season and are one place about the relegation spots, on goal difference only. Telles has managed 90 minutes in the league three times all season (they got one point for those three games).

Alex Sandro might play, Juve are also having a dreadful season, but he's 31 with only 37 caps so far from guaranteed. In the last three years he has 14 caps to Renan Lodis 12 - Alex Telles has 7.

McTominay has comfortably more minutes than Fred, who is guaranteed to be in the Brazil squad and has a decent chance of playing.

Of course it's comparable, the whole point is that every nation suffers the same issue - the best players play at the best clubs, the best clubs rotate their players. If they want only guys that play 90 minutes every week, their team would be far worse. As for Brazil having a better star player than us? No shit

So just simply, do you think it's better or worse for Scotland some of our better players playing less minutes recently than they have previously?

If the answer is it's worse, which it obviously is. Can you stop posting complete unrelated rubbish?

[Satoshi]

32 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

So just simply, do you think it's better or worse for Scotland some of our better players playing less minutes recently than they have previously?

If the answer is it's worse, which it obviously is. Can you stop posting complete unrelated rubbish?

In Tierneys case I'm definitely happy he isn't playing 90 mins Europa League Thurs then 90 mins league on Sunday, that would undoubtedly cause further injury problems.

For the rest, it's maybe marginally worse but in general it doesn't really matter. Almost no players are guaranteed minutes at the top clubs. A more appropriate question is, is it better for these players to be playing 90 minutes every week at a lower level or half the minutes at a top club, surrounded by better players and coaches, and playing against better opposition?

For me, the answer is easy, the players should play at the highest level they can.

Being benched for the last three league games won't particularly affect Fodens career, for example.

Tierney isn't a worse player than McKenna because he isn't playing 90 minutes in the league every week.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Satoshi

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

In Tierneys case I'm definitely happy he isn't playing 90 mins Europa League Thurs then 90 mins league on Sunday, that would undoubtedly cause further injury problems.

For the rest, it's maybe marginally worse but in general it doesn't really matter. Almost no players are guaranteed minutes at the top clubs. A more appropriate question is, is it better for these players to be playing 90 minutes every week at a lower level or half the minutes at a top club, surrounded by better players and coaches, and playing against better opposition?

For me, the answer is easy, the players should play at the highest level they can.

Being benched for the last three league games won't particularly affect Fodens career, for example.

Tierney isn't a worse player than McKenna because he isn't playing 90 minutes in the league every week.

 

 

So it's worse for Scotland our players not playing, thank you.

[bdu98196]

The connotations of players being dropped is somewhat different to rested/rotated. For example when Man U 'dropped' Ronaldo he was out of the squad and training with the youngsters, many of the mentioned Scottish players are not starting a game but on the bench therefore being rotated or rested. In a league (especially the EPL) where teams continually change player line-up for Europe, League cup & FA cup games along with the league, there are less and less performers appearing for the 38 Barclays games plus additional. Find examples of EPL line-up's from any side that go unchanged for a sequence of matches.........there isnt many.

For guys like Gilmour, McGinn & Fraser not to be getting significant game time is a worry for the national team, where as the the likes of Tierney & McTominay still get plenty opportunity just perhaps not always in the big TV games that people are drawn towards. However, so long as they are still part of the match day squad there is always a chance they can force their way back into being a regular but they need to perform. Top level football is a squad game now and expands beyond just 11 good players, teams want strength and depth and our guys are part of that.

Would fans rather see the guys drop to Championship levels for regular game time, but at a lower level therefore reducing their development and building of game understanding that can only come with exposure around other top players and competitions?

[2426255]

On 29/10/2022 at 15:53, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

Ryan Fraser.

Ryan Christie. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, bdu98196 said:

The connotations of players being dropped is somewhat different to rested/rotated. For example when Man U 'dropped' Ronaldo he was out of the squad and training with the youngsters, many of the mentioned Scottish players are not starting a game but on the bench therefore being rotated or rested. In a league (especially the EPL) where teams continually change player line-up for Europe, League cup & FA cup games along with the league, there are less and less performers appearing for the 38 Barclays games plus additional. Find examples of EPL line-up's from any side that go unchanged for a sequence of matches.........there isnt many.

For guys like Gilmour, McGinn & Fraser not to be getting significant game time is a worry for the national team, where as the the likes of Tierney & McTominay still get plenty opportunity just perhaps not always in the big TV games that people are drawn towards. However, so long as they are still part of the match day squad there is always a chance they can force their way back into being a regular but they need to perform. Top level football is a squad game now and expands beyond just 11 good players, teams want strength and depth and our guys are part of that.

Would fans rather see the guys drop to Championship levels for regular game time, but at a lower level therefore reducing their development and building of game understanding that can only come with exposure around other top players and competitions?

Bar Gilmour the other 4 players you mentioned have significant premier league experience over a number of years. And are still in their prime. Why would a move to the championship be under discussion for any of them?

The more minutes the players are playing at the top level for their clubs, the better they will be for Scotland.

Its been a squad game for many many years, I dont think that will be a revelation to anyone.

If our players not playing is detrimental to the Scotland squad and team then its perfectly rational for Scotland fans to discuss it on a Scotland forum.

Edited November 7, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[bdu98196]

1 minute ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Bar Gilmour the other 4 players you mentioned have significant premier league experience over a number of years. And are still in their prime. Why would a move to the championship be under discussion for any of them?

The more minutes the players are playing at the top level for their clubs, the better they will be for Scotland.

If our players not playing is detrimental to the Scotland squad and team then its perfectly rational for Scotland fans to discuss it on a Scotland forum.

Perhaps if you actually took time to read what other write instead of your self indulgent rants on every thread you'd be able to comprehend others points and positions.

I posed a question, directly to those like yourself, who seem desperate to either convince that not playing means their careers are ruined of that nobody managing their clubs has faith in them. Hence, if you read my point is that top squads rotate therefore if you want players to be guaranteed every minute they need to find other clubs which inevitably will be a drop in level (such as Championship, however you can stick with arse end of EPL where they may still be rotated if it makes you feel better about it).

 

[dundeefc1783]

12 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

No no no, you're completely wrong. They would be overjoyed with neymar on the bench. As not playing is the new playing or something.

We also need to discuss Brazil's starting left back in much more detail, it should have a thread of its own.

We do need to discuss Brazil's likely starting left back who has not started any of Brazil's last 15 games and contributed exactly 0 minutes to the WC qualifying campaign.

[accies1874]

Obviously unlucky that I posted this on the Nathan Patterson thread, but it was a bit of a worry in the summer and some of it has come to pass:

On 24/07/2022 at 15:03, accies1874 said:

Reports that Everton might look to loan him out. All our best players getting jettisoned by their clubs this season imo.

McGinn, McTominay and Tierney definitely looked like they might be replaced as starters, plus Robertson pre-injury form was concerning but he's been very good when I've seen him after that time off. Gilmour and Hendry got binned, and there were worries with Armstrong and McKenna due to their clubs' recruitment but they've done well to keep their place. 

So yeah, it's not a huge surprise that we're in this position, but McTominay and Tierney are more than good enough to bounce back (maybe not at their current clubs though) and Gilmour and McGinn will probably be fine eventually. 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

2 hours ago, dundeefc1783 said:

We do need to discuss Brazil's likely starting left back who has not started any of Brazil's last 15 games and contributed exactly 0 minutes to the WC qualifying campaign.

Will your starting left back even be in the squad it’s almost as if players not playing is a cause for concern for other countries and they drop them.

 

[dundeefc1783]

16 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Brazil likely starting left back on the bench for Nottingham Forest.

 

This aged well 

[Bing.McCrosby]

4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

Perhaps if you actually took time to read what other write instead of your self indulgent rants on every thread you'd be able to comprehend others points and positions.

I posed a question, directly to those like yourself, who seem desperate to either convince that not playing means their careers are ruined of that nobody managing their clubs has faith in them. Hence, if you read my point is that top squads rotate therefore if you want players to be guaranteed every minute they need to find other clubs which inevitably will be a drop in level (such as Championship, however you can stick with arse end of EPL where they may still be rotated if it makes you feel better about it).

 

Yeah I ignored your question as it was pointless and rubbish much like the rest of the post tbh.

My point is simple, it benefits Scotland to have our players playing more. Im not sure why you would disagree with this. I think its very possible you are actually @Satoshi

Teams like Aston villa or Newcastle or Brighton will not rotate very much in the league at all. The only real need to is if they are in European competition. Or sometimes for early cup rounds. You can go and look at their league selections their teams will be very very similar for league games every wk.

So why would these players need to drop to the championship? Who play just as many games. And would have the exact decisions to make as any Premier league team not in Europe.

Also arsenal specifically are being praised this season for having consistency in their league selections. Which has no doubt been a major contribution to their good form.

Im sorry your startling revelation that football teams have squads didn't receive the round of applause you thought it was worth though.

*edit

Before you come back with some boring stat about how many players have played for each team this season. I've just looked at Newcastles last 4 games, minimal changes game per game. Same with villa, they have obviously had some changes since they have changed manager. Mcginn being the most high profile absentee. I dont need to check Brighton as I've been keeping an eye on gilmours progress, and their league team is almost exactly the same every single wk.

Edited November 7, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, dundeefc1783 said:

This aged well 

Christ hes been going on about brazils starting left back for ages as well

He will be on any time now to explain that not being in the squad is actually better than being in the squad or something.

[bdu98196]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Yeah I ignored your question as it was pointless and rubbish much like the rest of the post tbh.

My point is simple, it benefits Scotland to have our players playing more. Im not sure why you would disagree with this. I think its very possible you are actually @Satoshi

Teams like Aston villa or Newcastle or Brighton will not rotate very much in the league at all. The only real need to is if they are in European competition. Or sometimes for early cup rounds. You can go and look at their league selections their teams will be very very similar for league games every wk.

So why would these players need to drop to the championship? Who play just as many games. And would have the exact decisions to make as any Premier league team not in Europe.

Also arsenal specifically are being praised this season for having consistency in their league selections. Which has no doubt been a major contribution to their good form.

Im sorry your startling revelation that football teams have squads didn't receive the round of applause you thought it was worth though.

*edit

Before you come back with some boring stat about how many players have played for each team this season. I've just looked at Newcastles last 4 games, minimal changes game per game. Same with villa, they have obviously had some changes since they have changed manager. Mcginn being the most high profile absentee. I dont need to check Brighton as I've been keeping an eye on gilmours progress, and their league team is almost exactly the same every single wk.

What a fucking load of utter shite. Not one fact within that crap to justify your point. For someone who in their own mind is such an expert  thinks, it's a loss to the game you're sitting in your mums basement in her underwear posting total shite on a football forum and not in the actual game as a top flight manager.

You're clearly too dumb to understand the points made or to ignorant to be able to even contemplate the position or views of others based on your own facts and statistics you very carefully select to make a niche point.

No point debating with you, as yet again you've demonstrated why most posters seem to think you're a grade A weapon.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 minute ago, bdu98196 said:

What a fucking load of utter shite. Not one fact within that crap to justify your point. For someone who in their own mind is such an expert  thinks, it's a loss to the game you're sitting in your mums basement in her underwear posting total shite on a football forum and not in the actual game as a top flight manager.

You're clearly too dumb to understand the points made or to ignorant to be able to even contemplate the position or views of others based on your own facts and statistics you very carefully select to make a niche point.

No point debating with you, as yet again you've demonstrated why most posters seem to think you're a grade A weapon.

Tbh I have no earthly idea who you are, or wether I have spoken to you previously.

Youve completely lost it tho, claiming my post has no facts. When it does. And then posting 3 paragraphs of opinions of me.

Go back to the facts, you said they would have to drop down to the championship to be a regular in a team.

I've demonstrated that this is inaccurate the teams mentioned dont rotate alot with regards to their league games. If you can look at the teams mentioned and prove their league teams are massively rotated you would have done so. You haven't because it was a wild take, which has been caught out.

The championship actually plays more league games 8 more per season.

So again, why would proven Premier league players in their prime have to drop down to the championship to play consistently?

And for the record, I dont think im anything special. We all post opinions on football on a football forum. Sometimes im right and sometimes im wrong. In this instance im right.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Virtual Insanity]

None of them have turned into bad players overnight, but it is clearly a significant concern ignoring the Patterson/Hickey windup shite that several of our key players are going through a tough time at their clubs. That said, this is realistically about as good a time as you could pick to have a collective shite spell. None of them have turned into poor players overnight. In Tierney's case, there are almost certainly going to be enough games for him over the next 4 months to keep him fresh and indeed given his past it might be beneficial from a Scotland point of view. I also agree that McGinn probably needs a bit of a rest. I think he's a good enough player that he'll force his way back in at Villa and hopefully in a better position. As long as these guys are involved every week in the matchday squads and getting at least some minutes then I don't think it's a huge concern. Gilmour is the one I'd most like to see getting more minutes but he's behind 2 excellent players who seem to be pretty robust. At least one of them is likely to move on in the next 6-9 months though and that will be the big test for Gilmour. He has time on his side and Scotland and Brighton can afford to be patient with him.

Ultimately, what matters is how they play when they turn up for Scotland and none of the players listed have shown any significant cause for concern in that respect.

[Satoshi]

I'm surprised they have selected Alex Telles who is struggling for 90 mins for a terrible Sevilla side (and has half the caps as Lodi and is 5 years older).

Still at least someone did some research, much better than being the only one.

Here's a pertinent question, would you rather have the likes of McTominay or Tierney playing 90 minutes in the league every year for Fulham or playing frequently, but not every game for Man Utd and Arsenal? For me the latter is 100% better for the national team, playing alongside better players and coaches, and at the highest level in European games. Virtually no player is guaranteed minutes at these clubs anyway, look at how Man City rotate, and I can't think of a single national team that has only has players guaranteed minutes at club level.

Pogbas erratic form and appearances for Man Utd never stopped his as an elite international player.

Let's see if we can get some intelligent contributions to that question.

[dundeefc1783]

10 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I'm surprised they have selected Alex Telles who is struggling for 90 mins for a terrible Sevilla side (and has half the caps as Lodi and is 5 years older).

Still at least someone did some research, much better than being the only one.

 

 

Is this the same Alex Telles who has played far more minutes this season than Lodi has and has played 90 minutes more than twice as often as Lodi.

 

Are you claiming you have done research on this? Surely if you had you would know that Lodi was likely to be nowhere near Brazil's starting 11.