Motherwell v Aberdeen 22/10/22

[Handsome John]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It baffles me that someone in Hammell's position, with all the briefings clubs must have had about VAR, can still fundamentally misunderstand how it works. The fact the referee blows the full-time whistle doesn't stop incidents from being checked - if they spot something after that they can come back out and take the penalty.

Can they?

I’m sure in the BBC programme the other day, it showed the VAR telling the ref that all checks were completed and he could blow the final whistle?

[MP_MFC]

I was under the impression that would be the case but from watching the documentary on iPlayer they seemed to suggest otherwise- it finishes with them telling the ref that there are no outstanding VAR checks and that he may ‘close the game’. 
 

Not sure if this is how the SFA are or were directing it but that would suggest that they had to sign off that everything was complete before the whistle could blow. 
 

As an aside on that documentary, it was scarily prescient as it showed them screwing up awarding a penalty proving that even with VAR they were going to be useless. 

[craigkillie]

Man Utd were awarded a penalty after full-time against Brighton a couple of years ago. The ref might be asked to keep the players on the pitch if there's a check in place, but he's not going to keep playing longer than he should be so that they can check a decision - otherwise you could have a goal scored in that time that shouldn't have happened.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/26/why-var-was-right-to-award-man-utd-a-penalty-vs-brighton-after-the-full-time-whistle-13330422/

[Al B]

I haven't listened to  any of the post match stuff with too much attention, but I was under the impression that Hammell's issue was that he thought they were lying about having checked it at all....regardless of the whole final whistle thing?

I mean, if that is his issue it's completely understandable....the ref missing it is one thing, but I think both sets of fans would admit that if VAR has looked at that and decided it's not a penalty, then it's completely pointless having it.

[CoF]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It baffles me that someone in Hammell's position, with all the briefings clubs must have had about VAR, can still fundamentally misunderstand how it works. The fact the referee blows the full-time whistle doesn't stop incidents from being checked - if they spot something after that they can come back out and take the penalty.

Hammell's right though. There's no way they checked the penalty claims before the ref blew for full time, and it was clear as soon as he blew that there were no checks still going on. You could see Goodwin and Hammell checking with the ref and fourth official as soon as the whistle went. 

[CoF]

33 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

As an aside on that documentary, it was scarily prescient as it showed them screwing up awarding a penalty proving that even with VAR they were going to be useless. 

I was a bit baffled with that bit, not because of the eventual shite decision but because the English guy who appeared to be there teaching them said it should've been referred to the ref because they were so uncertain - whereas the ref operating the VAR (canny mind his name) said he didn't do that because it wasn't a clear and obvious error., which in my mind is right?

[DrewDon]

Looking back at the Lamie/Stewart incident on Sportscene now, that instinctively feels to me like one where VAR shouldn't get involved and the referee's on-field decision is sufficient. If it had been given by the referee originally then I obviously wouldn't expect it to be overturned, but it doesn't feel glaring or obvious enough for VAR intervention if it is not given in real time. 

[craigkillie]

Hammell's right though. There's no way they checked the penalty claims before the ref blew for full time, and it was clear as soon as he blew that there were no checks still going on. You could see Goodwin and Hammell checking with the ref and fourth official as soon as the whistle went. 

There must have been a good 90 seconds between the incidents happening and the bit you're describing. Play went up the other end, then Kelly launched it back forward even before full-time, and then you'd have a bit of time between the whistle and the managers getting over to the ref. I'd say that would be more than long enough to have a look at the aerial challenge and presumably decide it wasn't a clear and obvious error (I'm personally fine with VAR not giving those types of incidental grapples in the box as long as it's consistent).

[Swami]

I’m not sure if I’m covering old ground or not, or whether I’m just an old dick that hasn’t noticed before but I can accept the VAR nonsense because I thought we were shite today and didn’t deserve even a point. Those fucking holes in these Aberdeen lads’ socks though are absolutely unacceptable. 

[Irrational Behaviour]

9 hours ago, Dosser1886 said:

Are you 12?

Childish response from a grown man.

[Thenorthernlight]

6 hours ago, Swami said:

I’m not sure if I’m covering old ground or not, or whether I’m just an old dick that hasn’t noticed before but I can accept the VAR nonsense because I thought we were shite today and didn’t deserve even a point. Those fucking holes in these Aberdeen lads’ socks though are absolutely unacceptable. 

I’d go with you’re self-assessment.

You’re an old dick 

 

[Thenorthernlight]

6 hours ago, CoF said:

Hammell's right though. There's no way they checked the penalty claims before the ref blew for full time, and it was clear as soon as he blew that there were no checks still going on. You could see Goodwin and Hammell checking with the ref and fourth official as soon as the whistle went. 

There was loads of time to check the penalty. 
Close to a minute. 

One replay (about 10 seconds) showed he was talking shite about the handball. Clearly off Kennedy’s hip. 

And the alleged shirt pull… happens at every set piece. Wasn’t near blatant or “affecting” enough to merit a penalty. Besides, Lamie should’ve had two yellows before then & not been on the pitch. Took Miovski out in an Aberdeen attack & got away with a clear yellow. 

Hammell was just clutching and I’m not sure he’d even seen the incidents before commenting, sounded like he was going on hearsay? 

[Irrational Behaviour]

Lamie has just got to be stronger there. Outmuscled. 

Ball hits Kennedy's hip. 

Nothing to see here. 

[coprolite]

8 hours ago, Al B said:

I haven't listened to  any of the post match stuff with too much attention, but I was under the impression that Hammell's issue was that he thought they were lying about having checked it at all....regardless of the whole final whistle thing?

I mean, if that is his issue it's completely understandable....the ref missing it is one thing, but I think both sets of fans would admit that if VAR has looked at that and decided it's not a penalty, then it's completely pointless having it.

I've had a look at what Hammell's complaint was. He's not too sure. He said Lamie was tripped, that an official said that they couldn't check it because the whistle had gone and also that he didn't get an explanation. Unreliable witness imo. 

[CoF]

8 hours ago, DrewDon said:

Looking back at the Lamie/Stewart incident on Sportscene now, that instinctively feels to me like one where VAR shouldn't get involved and the referee's on-field decision is sufficient. If it had been given by the referee originally then I obviously wouldn't expect it to be overturned, but it doesn't feel glaring or obvious enough for VAR intervention if it is not given in real time. 

 

8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

There must have been a good 90 seconds between the incidents happening and the bit you're describing. Play went up the other end, then Kelly launched it back forward even before full-time, and then you'd have a bit of time between the whistle and the managers getting over to the ref. I'd say that would be more than long enough to have a look at the aerial challenge and presumably decide it wasn't a clear and obvious error (I'm personally fine with VAR not giving those types of incidental grapples in the box as long as it's consistent).

 

1 hour ago, Thenorthernlight said:

There was loads of time to check the penalty. 
Close to a minute. 

One replay (about 10 seconds) showed he was talking shite about the handball. Clearly off Kennedy’s hip. 

And the alleged shirt pull… happens at every set piece. Wasn’t near blatant or “affecting” enough to merit a penalty. Besides, Lamie should’ve had two yellows before then & not been on the pitch. Took Miovski out in an Aberdeen attack & got away with a clear yellow. 

Hammell was just clutching and I’m not sure he’d even seen the incidents before commenting, sounded like he was going on hearsay? 

 

I suppose I'm going on the assumption that there's no way a VAR ref can look at a replay of that and say it's not a clear foul. It's well beyond the man handling that happens every set piece. And I think we all know that while 90 seconds should be enough time to check this things, it's VAR we're talking about....

Anyway, looks like the kinda thing opposing fans will have completely differing views because I think all yer takes on it are mental. I've banged on about it enough. 

 

 

[Pepper]

One of the glaring issues with VAR is when there are a series of potential offences that require review in quick succession. 

The video demo showed the VAR ref replaying one review in slowmo whilst his assistant continued to watch play. 

Quite often the fans and commentators are completely unaware of the series of events that might require review before the most obvious/contentious one is dealt with. 

Was there a potential offside that came before the foul? If that's not the case then its got to be given as a penalty. 

 

[kingjoey]

11 minutes ago, Pepper said:

Was there a potential offside that came before the foul? If that's not the case then its got to be given as a penalty. 

 

Got to be given? In your opinion, but not in mine. It's all about opinions.

[naegoodinthedark]

3 excellent goals yesterday. 
 

Also, f**k VAR. 

[Frank Grimes]

47 minutes ago, naegoodinthedark said:

3 excellent goals yesterday. 
 

Also, f**k VAR. 

We may not have won the game without it 

I’m not as hostile to it as others 

Mon the VAR 

[Thenorthernlight]

48 minutes ago, naegoodinthedark said:

3 excellent goals yesterday. 
 

Also, f**k VAR. 

without it there’d only have been two excellent goals.