St Mirren vs Dundee United

[sergie's no1 fan]

9 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

How long do fellow St Mirren fans think we keep Strain and Baccus at the club for? We seem to have landed on a couple of gems and as we all know it doesn’t take crazy amounts of money to prize them away. I hope I’m wrong but I would be surprised if either of them are at the club come the start of next season. 

I think we'll be lucky to have both of them after January tbh.

[IrishBhoy]

11 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

I think we'll be lucky to have both of them after January tbh.

I was tempted to say the same, and I think Baccus is more likely to go than Strain in January. Do we have both tied down for next season? I haven’t checked but I seem to remember Strain was only contracted for the season and Baccus for two.  
 

As much as Baccus has been a great asset to the team so far, I think Strain would be a more difficult player to replace. He’s 8 out of 10 every week. 

[Munoz]

2 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

I was tempted to say the same, and I think Baccus is more likely to go than Strain in January. Do we have both tied down for next season? I haven’t checked but I seem to remember Strain was only contracted for the season and Baccus for two.  
 

As much as Baccus has been a great asset to the team so far, I think Strain would be a more difficult player to replace. He’s 8 out of 10 every week. 

Strain is on a 2 year contract 

[NorthBank]

1 hour ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

We are lacking in a couple of key positions (defensive midfield, goalkeeper) and we really suffer for it. Watt is good when he can be bothered, which isn't all that often. Edwards and Levitt have largely been poor, Behich is decent going forward but cannot defend, and Mulgrew was great for the first half of last season but has been pretty underwhelming since then. It remains to be seen how good the manager actually is, but I worry about where we are going to end up, I'm getting strong 2015/16 vibes from this bunch. The stench of that 9-0 defeat remains, and I haven't forgotten or forgiven the players who simply chucked it that day and I don't feel I can offer them my support. I'm fucked if I am spending my time and money on a group of players who don't give a shit. Add in the f**k up over Lewis Neilson (and whoever was responsible for that is still at the club - I know if I cost my employer that amount of money due to an admin error I wouldn't have a job any more), and I am just scunnered with events on and off the pitch. I can live with being crap, but this is beyond that.

Looks to me that someone decided to sign 'good' players with no idea of formation nor tactics. On paper Utd have decent players but as a team they have glaring weaknesses. McGrath is a good no 10 but not a wide player where his talent is wasted. The midfield is weak. There seems to be too many egos in the squad which is not good in a team game. Robinson insists St Mirren have decent players but a very good team with no egos and that is a huge difference between Utd and us. I think some of our lads are far more than decent but we play as a team and if one player is injured another slots in. We don't change the formation nor tactics so everyone knows what the job of any position is. Utd may feel they are too good to go down but I have yet this season to see a really poor team. The dogfight will go right to the wire with several teams involved in my humble opinion.

[IrishBhoy]

14 minutes ago, Munoz said:

Strain is on a 2 year contract 

Genuinely good news. 

[Ric]

I think there will be chat about both Strain and Baccus, I would be stunned if they left in Jan though. They are just in the door, playing at higher levels than they have been, it would seem like folly to jump ship right away into a position where they aren't guaranteed the number of games they get with us (both being guaranteed starts if fully fit).

Will they still be here after the close of next Summer's window? Well, that, I have to say, is a bit of a tall order if they continue to perform as they are. Just not sold on the idea they'll only last 6 months with us before being snapped up by another team - even if that does maximise the profit.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Ric

[Bobby_F]

Was yesterday's VAR disallowed goal the first in Scotland to be chopped off for an infringement?

[FTOF]

Was yesterday's VAR disallowed goal the first in Scotland to be chopped off for an infringement?

Certainly the first one to be disallowed incorrectly.[emoji849]

[IrishBhoy]

22 minutes ago, Ric said:

I think there will be chat about both Strain and Baccus, I would be stunned if they left in Jan though. They are just in the door, playing at higher levels than they have been, it would seem like folly to jump ship right away into a position where they aren't guaranteed the number of games they get with us (both being guaranteed starts if fully fit).

If an English Championship club give us a £750k+ transfer fee and offer them personal terms 5 or 6 times their wage at St Mirren then we won’t see them for dust.
 

Would tend to agree that it’s unlikely to happen in January, but I was speaking to one of the guys that man the door of the main stand on match days, and they receive a list of scouts attending our games each week. From what I was told there has been 3 or 4 guys regularly attending who report back to Championship teams down south, with Baccus being their main interest. 

[Drooper]

I'm currently listening to Off the Ball (I know....), and despite initially highlighting that the introduction of VAR is yet another tedious opportunity to focus on the OF, what have they done? Focused on the Hearts v Celtic match.

Have they even mentioned the controversial incident from our game yesterday? Perhaps they have. I have been floating about and might have missed it.

 

 

 

[GAD]

33 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

If an English Championship club give us a £750k+ transfer fee and offer them personal terms 5 or 6 times their wage at St Mirren then we won’t see them for dust.
 

Would tend to agree that it’s unlikely to happen in January, but I was speaking to one of the guys that man the door of the main stand on match days, and they receive a list of scouts attending our games each week. From what I was told there has been 3 or 4 guys regularly attending who report back to Championship teams down south, with Baccus being their main interest. 

I think they'll see out the season with us. I think the teams from the championship looking at them both won't see them as absolute must haves for this season, and will be happy enough to wait till the summer when the price will have dropped a wee bit.

[glenburn bud]

If VAR are going to look at incidents as far back in the build up to a goal. Then we are fucked, if a player trying to fend off someone who is actually fouling him with a brush of the hand then it’s a farce. If that had been a Rangers player in the build up to that goal then it would have stood. 

[Ric]

1 hour ago, glenburn bud said:

If VAR are going to look at incidents as far back in the build up to a goal. Then we are fucked, if a player trying to fend off someone who is actually fouling him with a brush of the hand then it’s a farce. If that had been a Rangers player in the build up to that goal then it would have stood. 

I think that will be an outlier, I really don't expect similar to happen again. Technically is it part of the VAR regulations? No idea, but perhaps it is and there is just no set limit on how far back you go simply because nobody expected a referee to wait two minutes then penalise a player the other end of the pitch.

It sort of reminds me when pushing in the box was given some attention within the rules, and the first couple of games (I think it was..) Madden gave some really soft cards for exactly that. Everyone pointed out at the time he was just following the change of rules, but you could tell it would be utter carnage to continue with that level of strictness, and so as the weeks went on fewer and fewer were getting pulled up for it, and now it's almost like that rule change didn't even come into effect.

I expect similar here, tbh, and in a bizarre way I'm glad this was highlighted so early in the VAR experiment while also not actually costing us too badly.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Ric

[Stu]

As soon as Ayunga scored I knew VAR was going to look at what had happened with Baccus. It was pretty much right in front of me and I thought contact, if any, was minimal and the United guy had made the most of it and the replays haven't changed my mind. But when the ref was told to look at it I knew it was going to be ruled out. Thankfully it didn't cost us in the end and we shouldn't complain as, according to the Dundee United manager: "The VAR's turned it over so it must have been a foul."

Hard to understand why they're struggling considering he also moaned about the size of his centre-halfs - hadn't realised Alex Greive was such a giant.

[Hendo]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

I think that will be an outlier, I really don't expect similar to happen again. Technically is it part of the VAR regulations? No idea, but perhaps it is and there is just no set limit on how far back you go simply because nobody expected a referee to wait two minutes then penalise a player the other end of the pitch.

It sort of reminds me when pushing in the box was given some attention the rules, and the first couple of games (I think it was..) Madden gave some really soft cards for exactly that. Everyone pointed out at the time he was just following the change of rules, but you could tell it would be utter carnage to continue with that level of strictness, and so as the weeks went on fewer and fewer were getting pulled up for it, and now it's almost like that rule change didn't even come into effect.

I expect similar here, tbh, and in a bizarre way I'm glad this was highlighted so early in the VAR experiment while also not actually costing us too badly.

VAR goes back to the start of the "attacking phase of play" which is defined by the VAR but is usually anything leading up to a goal without a break in play. It should also only review clear and obvious errors, which clearly wasn't the case here. If Behich hadn't moaned so much about it, they might not even have spotted it.

[mishtergrolsch]

6 hours ago, GAD said:

Yeah, from the outside looking in it seems like you need a real clear out in January and almost a new team brought in. Some of those guys will go to other teams and look good, but they aren't going to do it at United. I've seen plenty of St Mirren teams just like that and it's fucking rotten as a fan when you see players phoning it in like that.

In saying that, I wouldn't say all is lost, especially if they can keep in touch untill January.

There needs to be a clear out but not necessarily restricted to playing staff. There are some decent players but they are not being utilised as effectively as they should be.

What's happening on the training ground?

What's happening on the recruitment front?

What are all our analysts doing?

Time for there to be a clear out in general imo.

[mishtergrolsch]

5 hours ago, NorthBank said:

Looks to me that someone decided to sign 'good' players with no idea of formation nor tactics. On paper Utd have decent players but as a team they have glaring weaknesses. McGrath is a good no 10 but not a wide player where his talent is wasted. The midfield is weak. There seems to be too many egos in the squad which is not good in a team game. Robinson insists St Mirren have decent players but a very good team with no egos and that is a huge difference between Utd and us. I think some of our lads are far more than decent but we play as a team and if one player is injured another slots in. We don't change the formation nor tactics so everyone knows what the job of any position is. Utd may feel they are too good to go down but I have yet this season to see a really poor team. The dogfight will go right to the wire with several teams involved in my humble opinion.

This has been the issue for years at United.

We had about 4 "no. 10s" in the Championship and got diddly squat out of most of them as they were all out of position.

That's still happening now. 

Full backs at centre half?

Watt (till recently) playing wide left?

Levitt playing 2 yards in front of the centre halfs?

It's all wrong imo. It's like back in the day when you ran out of ideas playing Championship Manager and you start picking the best players you can afford rather than players you need. Then you end up in bargain basement territory signing out of contract players who take weeks, if not months, to get fit. By then you're fucked.

Feels very much like we're running up to the "Banter Years part deux : Asghar outdoes Thompson".

[Arch Stanton]

 

 

[Buttocks Brown]

2 hours ago, Hendo said:

VAR goes back to the start of the "attacking phase of play" which is defined by the VAR but is usually anything leading up to a goal without a break in play. It should also only review clear and obvious errors, which clearly wasn't the case here. If Behich hadn't moaned so much about it, they might not even have spotted it.

It happened right in front of the Utd dugout and none of their staff claimed a foul. The referee was also very close to play at the time, having a better view at that moment than VAR gave him a few minutes later.

My hunch is if it happened in a game later in the season then the VAR officials might not have flagged it and even if they had then the ref would have trusted his initial judgement and given the goal. Yesterday, the VAR officials were likely overly sensitive to possible fouls in the build up to goals. Meanwhile, for the ref, it was his first time working with VAR and first time looking at an incident on a monitor. Maybe just got a bit flustered so ended up making a poor decision. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Buttocks Brown

[FTOF]

26 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

 

 

Shows how well Ayunga did when he pickpocketed Smith and hit the post. Very unlucky.

That's a couple of times we've hit the inside of the post and the ball has deflected unfavourably for us.