Amateur Football Reconstruction

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, Crazy Feet said:

I think it looks like The Central are just bringing teams in for money / to get the numbers up rather than looking to improve the quality of the league.

How many of the teams joining from the SAFL are established clubs with top facilities etc? How many of them will come over and compete in the Premier League?

If the rumours are true around other central clubs then it looks like a bad move. But I guess the Central's loss will be The Caley's gain.

Why does it matter how good a club is or whether they have top facilities? The quicker all these clubs are in the same league the better as then you'll have enough numbers to split all the teams into different divisions so they can find their level. And also have the option of more regionalisation.

That should be the entire point of the amateur system, right? That a club/players can join their local regional league and play against others of a similar level. 

[Amateur Fan]

6 hours ago, Crazy Feet said:

I think it looks like The Central are just bringing teams in for money / to get the numbers up rather than looking to improve the quality of the league.

How many of the teams joining from the SAFL are established clubs with top facilities etc? How many of them will come over and compete in the Premier League?

If the rumours are true around other central clubs then it looks like a bad move. But I guess the Central's loss will be The Caley's gain.

You are not getting it crazy feet the idea was safegaurd existing leagues not to get one over the other which is why the leagues like the stirling and saf have demised badly 

[Basile Boli]

9 minutes ago, Amateur Fan said:

You are not getting it crazy feet the idea was safegaurd existing leagues not to get one over the other which is why the leagues like the stirling and saf have demised badly 

What leagues have the Stirling District League been trying to get one over on?

As far as I’ve seen that league has always recognised its “place” or “standing” in the amateur game, although I could be wrong.

[Crazy Feet]

37 minutes ago, Amateur Fan said:

You are not getting it crazy feet the idea was safegaurd existing leagues not to get one over the other which is why the leagues like the stirling and saf have demised badly 

Nonsense. The reason leagues are demising is due to the number of players taking part falling dramatically and there being too many teams / leagues in the central belt. But we could talk about that all night and the reasons for it.

[Basile Boli]

16 minutes ago, Crazy Feet said:

Nonsense. The reason leagues are demising is due to the number of players taking part falling dramatically and there being too many teams / leagues in the central belt. But we could talk about that all night and the reasons for it.

Spot on. Biggest issue affecting the game outside committee politics is by far and away the lack of players. 

[Dev]

Sadly the Junior association became an independent fiefdom (more or less untouchable) and this led to the "let them govern themselves approach" from the SFA which is at the heart of the problems.

Thankfully though the Youth set-up etc is beginning to work and the National team is improving but there's more to the game that the national teams!

It's high time that the SFA closed down the Junior, Amateur and Welfare associations. Then it should put in place an organised structure for the Saturday amateurs in the west. Elsewhere the Amateurs seem to be sorted already.

Bring all amateur teams under the same umbrella SFA run section - i.e. which would be clearly part of the SFA and not perceived to be separate from it. Then the SFA would be responsible for sorting out any mess, if needs be, in future. At present it's just "it's not our responsibility" seems to be the mantra.

Following on from the above would be the creation of an amateur structure in the west which has already been put forward on this thread.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Dev
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[stanley]

I've said it before but the bottom line is that these leagues will eventually have no choice but to merge. The Scottish AFL has been in major decline in terms of numbers of many years and is on its last legs. The Stirling League will be gone soon enough too. Once these leagues disappear, the source of new clubs for the Caley and the Central will decline too as they could previously hope to pick up clubs from other leagues includings ones which have folded. They will all merge or fold one day, it's just about if they are proactive in making the changes of cling on until the numbers become too low to be feasible. 

[pleslie99]

On 06/02/2023 at 15:12, Basile Boli said:

Well on the other hand you could say that it gives the teams in a league clearly on its last legs a decent standard of league to play in. I don’t think the standard of the Central 2nd tier will be much different than whats left in the SAFL.

You could also say why are the Caley league being stubborn and rejecting a merger? Speaking around I think the main opinion of guys involved in the game is a merger between all Central-area leagues would be the way forward.

As always it comes down to too many individuals with vested interests not wanting to give up any control. 

If teams like Drum Ams came out and stated why they’ve chosen to move leagues, or the Caley laid down their decision making process and be transperent then it would be a good starting point for all parties to move forward.

I dont know the reasons for the Caley rejecting a merger or indeed the Drum wanting to move, they don't need to disclose their reasons, they are within their right to make the decisions they feel is right for them. What I do know is the Caley have certain standards clubs need to meet to be accepted. I have heard of 1 caley team that is moving to the 'merged' set up but there is more than just the Drum moving the other way. 

 

[Basile Boli]

4 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

I dont know the reasons for the Caley rejecting a merger or indeed the Drum wanting to move, they don't need to disclose their reasons, they are within their right to make the decisions they feel is right for them. What I do know is the Caley have certain standards clubs need to meet to be accepted. I have heard of 1 caley team that is moving to the 'merged' set up but there is more than just the Drum moving the other way. 

 

Yeah definitely, it’s their prerogative to release info or not but I feel like everyone needs to lay their cards on the table to try and move the game forward, as currently the way we’re going there may not be an amateur game in 10 years.

[Spyro]

If the amateur game dies then the clubs have only themselves to blame.

They complain the league doesn't do enough, the league take a step forward, the clubs spit the dummy, join another league and we are back to square one. 

Having been to a few agm's over a couple of associations, I can say that the clubs offer NOTHING. Always quick to complain and criticise but never offer the leagues any help or solutions. 

I even thought about joining the league setup to help out with admin, etc. but put that on hold when I saw the attitude of some of the entitled clowns running the clubs. And don't get me started on the referee situation, again it's their own fault! I've played in 2 bounce games refereed by opposing coaches and BOTH ended up in a riot, which tells you how well they can ref!

A lot of these wannabe superstars tend to start a team, race through the leagues winning everything then fold the minute they play some decent and get their arsed handed to them. 

It's a complete shambles tbh 

[Crazy Feet]

11 hours ago, Spyro said:

If the amateur game dies then the clubs have only themselves to blame.

They complain the league doesn't do enough, the league take a step forward, the clubs spit the dummy, join another league and we are back to square one. 

Having been to a few agm's over a couple of associations, I can say that the clubs offer NOTHING. Always quick to complain and criticise but never offer the leagues any help or solutions. 

I even thought about joining the league setup to help out with admin, etc. but put that on hold when I saw the attitude of some of the entitled clowns running the clubs. And don't get me started on the referee situation, again it's their own fault! I've played in 2 bounce games refereed by opposing coaches and BOTH ended up in a riot, which tells you how well they can ref!

A lot of these wannabe superstars tend to start a team, race through the leagues winning everything then fold the minute they play some decent and get their arsed handed to them. 

It's a complete shambles tbh 

Why does leagues merging save the amateur game? I don't get this argument tbh.

Surely at a simplistic level, how much the game propsers boils down to how many guys want to play football v how many teams operate in the area? I don't think the SAFL joining The Central is suddenly going to make hundreds of guys lost to the game start playing football again.

Numbers of participants dropping is by far the biggest issue.

For the last decade, participation has steadily declined which resulted in there being too many clubs within a small area and the fallout from this being a lot of clubs folding. The problem will fix itself naturally when there is enough players left willing to play combined with the right amount of clubs within the area still operating.

[Spyro]

26 minutes ago, Crazy Feet said:

Why does leagues merging save the amateur game? I don't get this argument tbh.

It was a move in the right direction, 1 step in many that are needed and we are already having a civil war. They've got no chance of sorting this until people understand that hard decisions will have to be made to save things from getting any worse. The sense of entitlement is too much though, always someone else's problem then cry when something doesn't go their way 

[LoveFitbaw]

Think it’s a good move for the central and SAFL to merge as I think the latter was on its way to folding altogether and the central losing 3 premiership teams this season alone it really is a no brainer to merge. The Cali have also lost teams but they’ve added 4 already for next season and 3 of those you’d think will be pushing hard to get straight into prem. Seen people say on here more could move either way however between Cali/central so be an interesting few months. 

[Amateur Footie Fan]

Just saw the Cali have announced Giffnock SC and Dunipace joining next season. Add that to Alva, Riverside, Drumchapel and Stenhousemuir next seasons 1st Div should be a cracker. Heard no teams leaving the Cali so going by their website its 12 team Premier and 16 team 1st Div. That's strong. They've effectively taken 2 teams from Central Premier, arguably best teams in GGPL and Stirling & District. Decent going. Central taking in good sides from SAFL although taking in 15 teams to get 2 decent ones seems like just going for numbers tbh

[Amateur Fan]

20 hours ago, Amateur Footie Fan said:

Just saw the Cali have announced Giffnock SC and Dunipace joining next season. Add that to Alva, Riverside, Drumchapel and Stenhousemuir next seasons 1st Div should be a cracker. Heard no teams leaving the Cali so going by their website its 12 team Premier and 16 team 1st Div. That's strong. They've effectively taken 2 teams from Central Premier, arguably best teams in GGPL and Stirling & District. Decent going. Central taking in good sides from SAFL although taking in 15 teams to get 2 decent ones seems like just going for numbers tbh

And the cally is not doing likewise what have those teams that have been taken in done to make you class tham as top sides ? apart from the drum

And if its a 16 team league good luck trying to get that finished next season if those teams are meant to be top sides therefore a run in the national or district cups would be expected and 30 league games no chance

I reckon the cally are now showing their true colours considering that a member of their executive initially started the almagamation talks, so they have now decided to go it alone and get the struggling saturday afternoon leagues in the central belt to fold and leaving the clubs left limited choice rather than do the correct move and form a pyramid with all the central belf leagues.  I AM ALRIGHT JACK ACTION

[Amateur Footie Fan]

57 minutes ago, Amateur Fan said:

And the cally is not doing likewise what have those teams that have been taken in done to make you class tham as top sides ? apart from the drum

And if its a 16 team league good luck trying to get that finished next season if those teams are meant to be top sides therefore a run in the national or district cups would be expected and 30 league games no chance

I reckon the cally are now showing their true colours considering that a member of their executive initially started the almagamation talks, so they have now decided to go it alone and get the struggling saturday afternoon leagues in the central belt to fold and leaving the clubs left limited choice rather than do the correct move and form a pyramid with all the central belf leagues.  I AM ALRIGHT JACK ACTION

Struck a raw nerve there. I think the majority of teams the Cali have brought in are all either top, or near top of their respective leagues. Whereas the central have taken in 15 teams to get 2 teams of a similar standard. That's all I was saying, sonot really quite the same as you suggest. According to the Cali website and twitter it was all the Cali Clubs who didn't want a merger so you're a bit off the mark there.  Whether that was a right or wrong decision who knows, but surely if the Clubs knock it back they're entitled to do so, its their league? To be honest is it down to a league on it's own to save amateur football as you suggest or try to put their own house in order so its attractive for other Clubs to apply. Surely if it's about saving ammy football that's the SAFA that should be doing something about it.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Amateur Footie Fan

[stanley]

Pretty sure it's only 14 Scottish AFL teams now as Hillington have resigned. Currently looking at 31 teams in the Central Scottish/Scottish and 28 in the Caledonian for next season I believe.

 

[Redondo]

Central Caledonian Scottish Amateur football could have had the potential for a Premier, Championship and 3 conferences which would have been interesting. 60 teams, 5 leagues of 12, 3 up 3 down with the winner of each conference getting promotion to the Championship. The 3 conferences getting drawn before each season to give an opportunity for teams to be competitive and a freshness of opponents. The Premier and Championship would be competitve and a couple of added Cup competitions , one solely for Conference teams a league cup for all.

Just a pity some cant see the wood for the trees!!!

[stanley]

34 minutes ago, Redondo said:

Central Caledonian Scottish Amateur football could have had the potential for a Premier, Championship and 3 conferences which would have been interesting. 60 teams, 5 leagues of 12, 3 up 3 down with the winner of each conference getting promotion to the Championship. The 3 conferences getting drawn before each season to give an opportunity for teams to be competitive and a freshness of opponents. The Premier and Championship would be competitve and a couple of added Cup competitions , one solely for Conference teams a league cup for all.

Just a pity some cant see the wood for the trees!!!

That would be been a great way to add some more excitement to the leagues and centralise everything. Too many people will be trying to protect their own league/position (as is always the case in Scottish football). Instead of a simple merger, you've got clubs jumping ship to other leagues. They'll eventually run out of a source for new clubs when leagues like Stirling shut down due to lack of numbers and will merge some years down the line...

[Gazzah]

33 minutes ago, Redondo said:

Central Caledonian Scottish Amateur football could have had the potential for a Premier, Championship and 3 conferences which would have been interesting. 60 teams, 5 leagues of 12, 3 up 3 down with the winner of each conference getting promotion to the Championship. The 3 conferences getting drawn before each season to give an opportunity for teams to be competitive and a freshness of opponents. The Premier and Championship would be competitve and a couple of added Cup competitions , one solely for Conference teams a league cup for all.

Just a pity some cant see the wood for the trees!!!

If people think merging all sorts of leagues will save amateur then they are kidding on. It’s slowly dying a death due to numerous reasons and personally im not sure it can be stopped give it 5 years and will be about 200 team’s maximum imo .  The 20s league and the east of Scotland/west of Scotland leagues have had a major impact. The generation now playing 35s are the ones who were committed etc. the generation coming through 16-20 is very worrying for grassroots football as it’s well down the list of priorities for them.