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Ukraine v Scotland (27/9/22)


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8 minutes ago, gannonball said:

A ‘step up’ is quite rather vague and subjective. Not sure if going to a yo-yo team like Fulham/Bournemouth etc who have no real ambition to stay there can be seen as some of significant step up . Playing with no real pressure on them in a stadium a third the size of Celtic park doesn’t strike as some leap in to the big time. The latter point you have made is undebatable and significant along with the extra cash. I see both sides to the argument tbh.

There is no "both sides" when it comes to the standard a player is consistently playing at. Someone might prefer playing for the team they support and winning lots of trophies in an easy league, rather than playing in a difficult league and likely winning nothing. That's a personal choice. But playing for any English PL team is a step up in standard from any Scottish PL team.

The same way playing for Ross County in the PL 2022/23 is a step up from playing for Dunfermline in L1. The fact that Dunfermline have more fans or a bigger ground or have a better chance of winning a league trophy is hilariously irrelevant.

Celtic fans really need a reality check here.

Edited by Gordon EF
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4 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Nope. Just higher standard, consistently. With Celtic, aye, you might get bodied by Real Madrid or the likes every few years. But since 2009, Celtic have played less than 30 games total at Champions League Group stage or later. And the majority of those would not have been against a higher standard of opposition than the best a team like Villa could face domestically.

Yep, using 2009-10 to 2021-22 as a guide then, Celtic would've played 456 games against Barclays opposition, or 30 games against similar or less than Barclays quality opposition playing in the SP and the CL.  Villa is a step up for any Scottish based footballer.

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28 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

There is no "both sides" when it comes to the standard a player is consistently playing at. Someone might prefer playing for the team they support and winning lots of trophies in an easy league, rather than playing in a difficult league and likely winning nothing. That's a personal choice. But playing for any English PL team is a step up in standard from any Scottish PL team.

The same way playing for Ross County in the PL 2022/23 is a step up from playing for Dunfermline in L1. The fact that Dunfermline have more fans or a bigger ground or have a better chance of winning a league trophy is hilarious irrelevance.

Celtic fans really need a reality check here.

Yeah Casually ignoring European Football and especially the champions league which is possibly the pinnacle of club football then you may have a point. Also a quick google and the last time Dunfermline were in league one the average attendance was about 400/500 more than Ross County  not quite an extra  30/40 thousand. If we’re going down these strange roads to try and prove points then perhaps the step isn’t as monumental as you originally thought . Also the original argument was about ambition which is slightly different.

Edited by gannonball
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30 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Yeah Casually ignoring European Football and especially the champions league which is possibly the pinnacle of club football then you may have a point. Also a quick google and the last time Dunfermline were in league one the average attendance was about 400/500 more than Ross County  not quite an extra  30/40 thousand. If we’re going down these strange roads to try and prove points then perhaps the step isn’t as monumental as you think. Also the original argument was about ambition which is slightly different.

I'm hardly ignoring it. I specifically addressed it. 

In the past 10 seasons, Celtic have or will have played 24 CL group stage games. The average standard they've faced there is undoubtedly higher than that you'd face in the EPL. But it's less than a season's worth of games. A player playing in the EPL for the same length of time would have faced top opposition many more times and the overall average standard of opposition they'd have played would be much higher.

The point is it's still laughable to counter a point about the standard of the level you're playing at with silly arguments about crowds or stadium size. Everyone who isn't a deluded OF trying to argue that mid-table EPL isn't a step up from the OF understands this.

The original point may well have been about personal ambition but that's not what I'm responding to now. On that point, it's subjective. Personally, I feel that footballers with the most ambition will want to go and play at the highest domestic standard they can but it's a personal choice. I'm not going to be critical of the likes of McGregor for having the career and life he wants to have but I do think that staying in Scotland, rather than moving a higher standard of league does show an element of a lack of ambition for a player of his quality.

Edited by Gordon EF
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59 minutes ago, gannonball said:

A ‘step up’ is quite rather vague and subjective. Not sure if going to a yo-yo team like Fulham/Bournemouth etc who have no real ambition to stay there can be seen as some of significant step up . Playing with no real pressure on them in a stadium a third the size of Celtic park doesn’t strike as some leap in to the big time. The latter point you have made is undebatable and significant along with the extra cash. I see both sides to the argument tbh.

The idea that Celtic players are under pressure in Scotland because 50,000 entitled half-witted glory hunting bigots think it is their right to win every game is laughable nonsense. 

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11 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

The idea that Celtic players are under pressure in Scotland because 50,000 entitled half-witted glory hunting bigots think it is their right to win every game is laughable nonsense. 

It's also almost certainly nonsense that OF players are under more pressure than your average EPL player. There's a huge number of games Celtic could have won comfortably over the past 10 years if I'd been playing for them. That's not really the case for your average EPL team.

What pressure it must be playing for Celtic at home to St Johnstone when every single of of your team mates is better than every single one of your opposition.

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19 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

The idea that Celtic players are under pressure in Scotland because 50,000 entitled half-witted glory hunting bigots think it is their right to win every game is laughable nonsense. 

 

3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It's also almost certainly nonsense that OF players are under more pressure than your average EPL player. There's a huge number of games Celtic could have won comfortably over the past 10 years if I'd been playing for them. That's not really the case for your average EPL team.

What pressure it must be playing for Celtic at home to St Johnstone when every single of of your team mates is better than every single one of your opposition.

Just about every ex player mentions it (pressure/scrutiny) when they do interviews or podcasts, many saying they underestimated it including even those who were Scottish. EPL players also so I’m going to take their actual experience of it over those on here.

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9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

 

Just about every ex player mentions it (pressure/scrutiny) when they do interviews or podcasts, many saying they underestimated it including even those who were Scottish. EPL players also so I’m going to take their actual experience of it over those on here.

I'd take a lot of these types of comments with a pinch of salt. It's like Ronaldo going on about the atmosphere at Celtic Park or an international manager raving about the quality of Scotland players before they play us, when asked by Scottish journalists. They'll say similar things all the time wherever they go. What else are they really going to say? It's mostly telling the person they're talking to what they want to hear and also, in this case, talking themselves up in the process.

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5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'd take a lot of these types of comments with a pinch of salt. It's like Ronaldo going on about the atmosphere at Celtic Park or an international manager raving about the quality of Scotland players before they play us, when asked by Scottish journalists. They'll say similar things all the time wherever they go. What else are they really going to say? It's mostly telling the person they're talking to what they want to hear and also, in this case, talking themselves up in the process.

I don’t think your comparisons are quite the same as playing under intense pressure and scrutiny isn’t necessarily a good thing, a lot of players don’t like constantly having it or want it. Talking up an atmosphere and player quality is undoubtedly being complimentary.  It can be a go to question though yes but like I say they people that have played in both scenarios mention it unprompted also.

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9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I don’t think your comparisons are quite the same as playing under intense pressure and scrutiny isn’t necessarily a good thing, a lot of players don’t like constantly having it or want it. Talking up an atmosphere and player quality is undoubtedly being complimentary.  It can be a go to question though yes but like I say they people that have played in both scenarios mention it unprompted also.

I'm not saying they're the same thing but there's a similar reason why people say these things. There's a bit of truth to them but they're still playing to the gallery to some extent. There are almost certainly slightly different types or pressures to each scenario. But the pressure that comes with playing at a higher standard is consistently being held to the that standard, because it's a higher standard. 

There have undoubtedly been players who're happy enough being a big fish in a small pond, collecting trophies and getting their CL shot every now and again rather than facing a sterner test in a better league. On the other side of that, nobody thinks that decent EPL players are thinking to themselves, "sure, I've proved myself here but there'll always be the question of could I have hacked it at an OF club." It's verging on ludicrous to even think that.

Edited by Gordon EF
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There was a penalty check in the Arsenal/Tottenham game today. Was for Arsenal and nothing was given. The check was done as play went on and when it was done nothing happened.

Is the ball only given to the team who 'win' the VAR decision when it goes out of play?

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Yeah the difference is that the on-field decision was no penalty yesterday whereas the referee did award a penalty in midweek. If the referee awards a penalty then the ball is dead at the spot the foul is alleged to have occurred, regardless of whether the VAR confirms the decision or overrules it. 

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