Ukraine v Scotland (27/9/22)

[gannonball]

5 minutes ago, ahemps said:

 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/meisteeinsaetze/gesamteinsaetze/statistik/2022/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2021&wettbewerb_id=&land_id=0&altersklasse=alle&yt0=Show 

In the last 3 years Aribo appears once, McGregor appears every year 15th, 22nd and 23rd.

Not exactly littered with OF players but that is the only source I checked so could be wrong.

If you go by minutes (and filter out the goalkeepers) more appear but my points still stand really anyway generally a Celtic or Rangers player will play a fair bit more than those at a mid table EPL club. Some players will love that though whilst others would rather they have more time to train and recover between games.

Edited September 29, 2022 by gannonball

[Aufc]

6 hours ago, Gaz said:

How is getting humped in the Champions League four out of six matches and beating utter dross up here to win League Cups better for his development than going down South and playing against world-class players every other week at a minimum?

He is not going to go down to a top 7-8 team as he is not at that level. So lets say he goes to Aston Villa or Southampton. He has swapped trophies and competing in the biggest club football tournament for mid table obscurity and getting humped off the likes of Man City whilst winning f**k all. McGinn moved down when he was a lot younger and moved from Hibs. It is hard to argue that a move from Celtic to these clubs is a step up. I understand the likes of Rodgers leaving for Leicester as it was a good chance for him to do well there and get a move back to one of the better clubs but i dont think Mcgregor would have gone there and then got a move to the likes of Man Utd etc. 

Maybe if McGregor had moved when he was younger but i dont think he will look back on his career with any regrets. Would moving to the likes of Aston Villa seen him do much more career wise? I don't think so. 

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

17 minutes ago, ahemps said:

 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/meisteeinsaetze/gesamteinsaetze/statistik/2022/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2021&wettbewerb_id=&land_id=0&altersklasse=alle&yt0=Show 

In the last 3 years Aribo appears once, McGregor appears every year 15th, 22nd and 23rd.

Not exactly littered with OF players but that is the only source I checked so could be wrong.

There was a year when 6 or more OF players made the top 10.  We may be using different resources, but the stats I recall were all reported quite widely, and the BBC did a piece.

It must have been the calendar year 2019, as Forrest, McGregor (Celtic), and Jack were all included.

I'm pretty sure that McGregor was quoted this week that he (paraphrasing) "wouldn't know what to do if he wasn't playing 70 games a season".

Edited September 29, 2022 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[kennie makevin]

19 minutes ago, Aufc said:

He is not going to go down to a top 7-8 team as he is not at that level. So lets say he goes to Aston Villa or Southampton. He has swapped trophies and competing in the biggest club football tournament for mid table obscurity and getting humped off the likes of Man City whilst winning f**k all. McGinn moved down when he was a lot younger and moved from Hibs. It is hard to argue that a move from Celtic to these clubs is a step up. I understand the likes of Rodgers leaving for Leicester as it was a good chance for him to do well there and get a move back to one of the better clubs but i dont think Mcgregor would have gone there and then got a move to the likes of Man Utd etc. 

Maybe if McGregor had moved when he was younger but i dont think he will look back on his career with any regrets. Would moving to the likes of Aston Villa seen him do much more career wise? I don't think so. 

It's extremely easy to argue that a move from Celtic to Aston Villa or Southampton is a step up. Those two clubs play in the English Premier League. Celtic play in the Scottish Premiership. The Scottish top flight to the English top flight is a step up, a huge step up.  It really is that simple. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by kennie makevin
Typo

[ahemps]

48 minutes ago, gannonball said:

If you go by minutes (and filter out the goalkeepers) more appear but my points still stand really anyway generally a Celtic or Rangers player will play a fair bit more than those at a mid table EPL club. Some players will love that though whilst others would rather they have more time to train and recover between games.

You initially stated players around Europe now it is mid table EPL you are comparing. Fair enough.

A lot of leagues have 34 games and not many countries now have 2 domestic cups left so by default they will play more games. 

[gannonball]

8 minutes ago, ahemps said:

You initially stated players around Europe now it is mid table EPL you are comparing. Fair enough.

A lot of leagues have 34 games and not many countries now have 2 domestic cups left so by default they will play more games. 

I was always comparing  to where they are likely to go to as I can’t remember the last time a champions league regular in the EPL bought a Scottish league player for their first team. My point was that Celtic/Rangers played a lot of minutes and I used the biggest yardstick possible to show that. 

[Mark Connolly]

Sorry to derail the Callum McGregor thread, but I hadn't realised Robby McCrorie was the player booked for launching the ball from the dugout towards the end the other night while Ukraine were desperate to take a quick throw.

He now has the frankly tremendous record of 1 yellow card in 0 caps.

[Ewan8472]

4 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Are you thinking of Harvey St Clair who's at Venezia in Serie B?

No , I had forgotten about him

Sorry Harvey

[KingRocketman II]

1 hour ago, kennie makevin said:

It's extremely easy to argue that a move from Celtic to Aston Villa or Southampton is a step up. Those two clubs play in the English Premier League. Celtic play in the Scottish Premiership. The Scottish top flight to the English top flight is a step up, a huge step up.  It really is that simple. 

it's not really that simple. it is a step up perhaps in the overall standard of league opposition. It is not necessarily a step up in terms of stadium, home attendance, training facilities and European experience and European game time. 

It will though give him a higher salary. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by KingRocketman II

[kennie makevin]

51 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

it's not really that simple. it is a step up perhaps in the overall standard of league opposition. It is not necessarily a step up in terms of stadium, home attendance, training facilities and European experience and European game time. 

It will though give him a higher salary. 

And a higher standard of football. It is that simple. A step up as l said.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, kennie makevin said:

And a higher standard of football. It is that simple. A step up as l said.

Yeah, we could guess all day for his motivations for wanting or not wanting to move. Or whether opportunities had been available.

But the fact if he had moved that he would be playing regularly at a higher standard isn't really up for debate.

And also he would have been more likely to have improved at a greater rate had he made this move.

[pub car king]

4 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Sorry to derail the Callum McGregor thread, but I hadn't realised Robby McCrorie was the player booked for launching the ball from the dugout towards the end the other night while Ukraine were desperate to take a quick throw.

He now has the frankly tremendous record of 1 yellow card in 0 caps.

Top shithousery there Scott Brown would be very proud. 

[Gordon EF]

Is Aston Villa a step up from Celtic?

Difficult to say. On the one hand, you'd be consistently playing at a much higher standard. On the other hand, Celtic Park has more seats than Villa Park.

[TONTROOPER]

I'm contemplating having relations with.....extremely bad relations.

..........

[KingRocketman II]

5 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Is Aston Villa a step up* from Celtic?

Difficult to say. On the one hand, you'd be consistently playing at a much higher standard. On the other hand, Celtic Park has more seats than Villa Park.

*domestic league standard

[KingRocketman II]

Hibernian manager Lee Johnson says Ryan Porteous' first Scotland cap will "alert suitors" just as his club are looking to negotiate a new contract.

 

 

[kennie makevin]

6 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Is Aston Villa a step up from Celtic?

Difficult to say. On the one hand, you'd be consistently playing at a much higher standard. On the other hand, Celtic Park has more seats than Villa Park.

The pertinent point is that the English top flight is a step up in quality from the Scottish top flight. Several steps up in fact. Therefore as long as Celtic are playing in Scotland then any club in the English top flight is a step up in football standards from Celtic. How many season tickets they sell, how loud they can sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone' are twee irrelevancies. Purely in footballing terms Celtic are a wee diddy club in comparison to the EPL.  And it's the uneven, unfair distribution of money throughout European football that's the cause of that. Something which Celtic have absolutely no issue with in Scotland. So they can't really complain or moan. 

[TheScarf]

Signing to any club in the Barclays is a step up from Rangers and Celtic.  The league standard is far superior.  I can't quite believe this is being debated.

[gannonball]

59 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Signing to any club in the Barclays is a step up from Rangers and Celtic.  The league standard is far superior.  I can't quite believe this is being debated.

A ‘step up’ is quite rather vague and subjective. Not sure if going to a yo-yo team like Fulham/Bournemouth etc who have no real ambition to stay there can be seen as some of significant step up . Playing with no real pressure on them in a stadium a third the size of Celtic park doesn’t strike as some leap in to the big time. The latter point you have made is undebatable and significant along with the extra cash. I see both sides to the argument tbh.

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

*domestic league standard

Nope. Just higher standard, consistently. With Celtic, aye, you might get bodied by Real Madrid or the likes every few years. But since 2009, Celtic have played less than 30 games total at Champions League Group stage or later. And the majority of those would not have been against a higher standard of opposition than the best a team like Villa could face domestically.