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Ukraine v Scotland (27/9/22)


accies1874

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1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

McGregor would do fine in the EPL. Not top 6 standard but he'd get a game and be well liked by the fans for probably the majority of clubs in that league IMO. 

 

He won't now, but he still could. Probably would have to run down his deal and go for free right enough. 

Kind  of what Barry Ferguson did. 

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56 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

I don't. It is completely the opposite of what I posted. 🤣

I didn't mention anything re any gilt edged chance being from edge of the box. Nor did I include anything Gordon saved as gilt edged.

Both Maloney and McCann on the highlights show and earlier McFadden referred to Jack's chance as a great opportunity. 

But never mind as you haven't read or understood my post and seem quite fixated for some bizarre reason on Ukraine having only one good chance 🤣

 

Well, apart from the fact thst you did. I understood it fine, you're just determined to count half chances and good efforts as the equivalent of sitters.

Ukraine had one sitter, Yarmolenko's very early on. Everything else was a good chance at best. 

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38 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well, apart from the fact thst you did. I understood it fine, you're just determined to count half chances and good efforts as the equivalent of sitters.

Ukraine had one sitter, Yarmolenko's very early on. Everything else was a good chance at best. 

ok fella. 😃

Edited by KingRocketman II
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11 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

I think maybe the media and public in Scotland have now  accepted that, annoying though the SKY hype may be, the EPL is probably the best league in the world and anyone who can command a first team place down there is, by definition, a superior player to his counterpart up here. 

 

10 hours ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

It’s difficult to blame McGregor though tbh. His only opportunity to play down south was at Notts County when he was very young and interestingly formed a strong midfield partnership with Jack Grealish. 
 

To my knowledge, and I’m sure Celtic confirmed this despite the Record’s best efforts, there has never been a single bid for him therefore you can’t blame him for being stuck up here as opportunities never came his way.

I agree with your point about it being interesting to see how well he’d have done in a top 5 league.

 

10 hours ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I get your point but disagree - you can’t move if nobody bids for you. And there was no concrete bid.

ps. I’m not debating whether he had the ability to play in a top 5 league or not btw.

McGregor is easily good enough to play in the EPL, and a much better player than James McArthur who has has 319 appearances at that level.

The no bids is a misnomer, clubs won't bid for a player who isn't interested in joining. If McGregor wanted to leave he would probably have 14 EPL clubs interested in him, and a good number of them will be pretty much guaranteeing him a starting position.

I would rather he left but after Brown staying partly due to family reasons it's hard to question his motivation when you don't know the full facts. He gets to stay where he grew up, gets paid a very good salary and seems professional enough to keep driving his own development. Good for him.

Turkey, Russia, North Africa, South Africa etc. All have the same challenge of having strongish domestic leagues meaning their players don't move abroad in the same droves as weaker leagues. If Callum McGregor stated in League of Ireland, regardless of personal circumstances he would have left long ago.

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2 hours ago, Loominous said:

Callum McGregor has cracked it in my opinion. Sort of doing what most footballers do towards the end of their careers. Easy domestic league but play important games for their national team and in Europe. 

Fair enough and who would blame him for that, but you've only one relatively short career and having won domestic trophies and experienced European football again & again & again and enjoyed trips to Dingwall, New Douglas Park, Fir Park etc again & again & again I do scratch my head at why a player, who's definitely good enough, might not want to experience Old Trafford, Anfield, St James Park, Emirates etc etc for a few seasons......if only for a wee change if nothing else.

Edited by kennie makevin
Typo
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2 hours ago, Aufc said:

Also he is playing champions league most seasons and winning trophies. Not the be all and end all to go down and swap it for mid table battles

How is getting humped in the Champions League four out of six matches and beating utter dross up here to win League Cups better for his development than going down South and playing against world-class players every other week at a minimum?

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I think it's no coincidence that the 3 Celtic players who have been at/were at Celtic for 10 years + (Brown, Forrest, McGregor) were the 3 who stuck by Lennon before he got sacked and the rest of the squad wanted out, or wanted him out.

Those 3 will/would never leave Celtic, it's too comfortable for them.

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2 hours ago, Loominous said:

Callum McGregor has cracked it in my opinion. Sort of doing what most footballers do towards the end of their careers. Easy domestic league but play important games for their national team and in Europe. 

Callum McGregor is 29. He's not 33 / 34.

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33 minutes ago, Gaz said:

How is getting humped in the Champions League four out of six matches and beating utter dross up here to win League Cups better for his development than going down South and playing against world-class players every other week at a minimum?

Yep. I'd say it's almost a certainty that John McGinn wouldn't be half the player he is for Scotland now if he had done what all the pundits in Scotland wanted him to do and left Hibs for Celtic.

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56 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

I think it's no coincidence that the 3 Celtic players who have been at/were at Celtic for 10 years + (Brown, Forrest, McGregor) were the 3 who stuck by Lennon before he got sacked and the rest of the squad wanted out, or wanted him out.

Those 3 will/would never leave Celtic, it's too comfortable for them.

I think it’s fair to say there has been a massive shift in the ambition/mentality of young Scottish players since the 3 you mentioned were classed in the ‘young’ bracket. As you say, the 3 guys were very comfortable being able to play up here well within themselves whilst winning a shit load of domestic trophies and earning very good money.

Hopefully the recent moves of Hickey, Ferguson and Doig to Italy is showing that young players have seen there is much more and much better out there than Celtic and Rangers.

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3 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I think it’s fair to say there has been a massive shift in the ambition/mentality of young Scottish players since the 3 you mentioned were classed in the ‘young’ bracket. As you say, the 3 guys were very comfortable being able to play up here well within themselves whilst winning a shit load of domestic trophies and earning very good money.

Hopefully the recent moves of Hickey, Ferguson and Doig to Italy is showing that young players have seen there is much more and much better out there than Celtic and Rangers.

You'd certainly hope so, I'm the same age as Brown and can guarantee when he was a young laddie in Fife, his footballing ambition would've been to play for one of the Old Firm.  It certainly was for the lads at The Caley and County I was in school with.  There was no talk of wanting to play abroad or in England what I ever heard from them.  Hopefully the 'Big 5' chat we hear all the time is now the preference for young Scottish players and not Celtic and Rangers, who win 80-90% of their games against inferior players.

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It's horses for courses - different types of players and different characters behave differently, and any squad needs a mix of all sorts. It's very hard to say McGregor has done the wrong thing here given that he's on the verge of reaching 50 caps for Scotland and getting the opportunity to play in big European matches on a somewhat regular basis. Playing at Celtic under Rodgers was the best thing that ever happened for his career, he could easily have been swallowed up and spat back out by another league rather than becoming the confident and elegant player he has developed into.

It's funny how you'll get people blasting English clubs for prioritising their league position over winning a cup competition, or going on about the lack of loyalty in football, but yet there's also enormous criticism of a player who has decided to play out his career with his boyhood club, where he gets to win lots of trophies and play in the Champions League.

If McGregor (or Brown before him) was a genuine world class player who could have been playing for a Man Utd or a Real Madrid or a Bayern Munich or whatever then the criticism would be fair enough, but he's not, he'd be at an Everton or a Villarreal or a Bayer Leverkusen. I don't see how having a player who is expected to win every week and thus has high standards and expectations of performance can exactly be a bad thing either.

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I think it's more a case with fans wanting him to go the EPL so we can say we've got another player in the EPL but we saw with Ryan Gauld footballers don't always put their club career at the top of their priority list even if they're capable of playing there. For whatever reason he's happy with what he's doing and there's nothing more to it.

Edited by 2426255
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23 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It's horses for courses - different types of players and different characters behave differently, and any squad needs a mix of all sorts. It's very hard to say McGregor has done the wrong thing here given that he's on the verge of reaching 50 caps for Scotland and getting the opportunity to play in big European matches on a somewhat regular basis. Playing at Celtic under Rodgers was the best thing that ever happened for his career, he could easily have been swallowed up and spat back out by another league rather than becoming the confident and elegant player he has developed into.

It's funny how you'll get people blasting English clubs for prioritising their league position over winning a cup competition, or going on about the lack of loyalty in football, but yet there's also enormous criticism of a player who has decided to play out his career with his boyhood club, where he gets to win lots of trophies and play in the Champions League.

If McGregor (or Brown before him) was a genuine world class player who could have been playing for a Man Utd or a Real Madrid or a Bayern Munich or whatever then the criticism would be fair enough, but he's not, he'd be at an Everton or a Villarreal or a Bayer Leverkusen. I don't see how having a player who is expected to win every week and thus has high standards and expectations of performance can exactly be a bad thing either.

You can’t just assume he’d have been fine at the 3 clubs you mention though. For starters, at present he’s one of the few players in world football that’s undropable therefore there isn’t the pressure to play well every week to retain your place and also, currently Celtic win 95% of their games domestically even if McGregor doesn’t play to his maximum. At these 3 clubs, there would be competition for places that would likely push his performance on and also, given these teams are not the top teams in their league so he’d need to be top of his game every week. Also I’d expect playing against better players most weeks would aid his development.

We could debate this all day but the reality is he’ll never leave Celtic so we’ll never know the answer.

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18 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I think it's more a case with fans wanting him to go the EPL so we can say we've got another player in the EPL but we saw with Ryan Gauld footballers don't always put their club career at the top of their priority list even if they're capable of playing there. For whatever reason he's happy with what he's doing and there's nothing more to it.

I want him to go to the EPL to become a better player, not so that I can say we have another player in the SPL. I'm happy to admit it's for selfish reasons - as a Scotland supporter I want our players to be the best players they can possibly be.

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I find it funny that people are alluding to that he is sort of cruising given he is always top one or two for covering ground and pretty much plays 2 games a week. He is seen as undroppable for club and country and managers even loathe to sub him. There is also a fair bit of shite that comes with being a Celtic captain.But aye he has taken the easy option because he doesn’t play for midtable Utd in the EPL. Fanboys are  gona Fanboy though I suppose

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