November squad of friendly

[Scotty Tunbridge]

2 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

His mother is Scottish, not his granny. And he plays in Scotland.

Hes currently being poached by another international team. Which you could understand considering we've not even capped him at any level.

Other nations look to secure young talent (just in case) and its exactly what we should be doing.

Not trying to white knight people but I genuinely think if craigkillie posted that the grass was green you’d be trying to argue otherwise.

[Ewan8472]

11 hours ago, dysartrovers said:

14 hours ago, Donathan said:

Celtic apparently going to Australia for a money spinning friendly so we might not have McGregor, Taylor, Turnbull and Ralston. 

It's an international window so more likely celtic will be without mcgegor, Taylor, Turnbull and Ralston

Compromise - Celtic without Turnbull                                                  and Ralston ?

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Ewan8472

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

Maybe we've not capped him because he's not good enough?

Hes absolutely not good enough at this moment. Nobody is suggesting he is.

1 hour ago, Scotty Tunbridge said:

Not trying to white knight people but I genuinely think if craigkillie posted that the grass was green you’d be trying to argue otherwise.

I disagree with some of his opinions and agree with others. I also think he's a prat, but thats not my reason for disagreeing.

I think that as a small nation we need to do what other small nations do. Get the young highly rated duel nationality players into the setup. The lads not been included at any level for us. And for the ones viewed as exceptional young prospects cap them early to protect ourselves from losing them in future.

Im talking about friendlys here, im not talking about capping young guys who aren't at that level in meaningful games.

[eez-eh]

The guy’s playing in the lowland league. Get him in one of the youth squads if you want to involve him but holy moly giving out full caps to someone like him because Canada u20s are sniffing about would be mental.

Edited October 2, 2022 by eez-eh

[Bing.McCrosby]

16 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

The guy’s playing in the lowland league. Get him in one of the youth squads if you want to involve him but holy moly giving out full caps to someone like him because Canada u20s are sniffing about would be mental.

I've never seen this guy play, so I have no option on this guys specific level of ability.

But I'm not against giving a young player who may have the ability in future to be a player for us some time in a friendly game to secure him for us.

Weve got to use every available trick in the book to do whats best for us long term. Would bringing someone on for 5 minutes in a friendly hurt us in the short term?

Maybe inclusion in our youth squads would be enough for him, I have no idea on his feelings.

Edited October 2, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Wile E Coyote]

9 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I've never seen this guy play, so I have no option on this guys specific level of ability.

But I'm not against giving a young player who may have the ability in future to be a player for us some time in a friendly game to secure him for us.

Weve got to use every available trick in the book to do whats best for us long term. Would bringing someone on for 5 minutes in a friendly hurt us in the short term?

Maybe inclusion in our youth squads would be enough for him, I have no idea on his feelings.

Playing in a friendly doesn't secure him though. He will still have his options open

See Jason Cummings for proof

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Wile E Coyote said:

Playing in a friendly doesn't secure him though. He will still have his options open

See Jason Cummings for proof

Yeah thats a good point, your correct.

I'd like to withdraw my opinions over the last 2 pages

I still think we should be trying to secure good young players. Do what Wales do and get them in young and involved.

Elliot Anderson at Newcastle in particular.

Im also not against @velo army

Idea of bringing doak in for this. The guy looks like an exceptional talent. We don't need to secure him but getting him involved early would be good for him.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[2426255]

7 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I'd like to withdraw my opinions over the last 2 pages

[TheScarf]

This is our best squad in fuck knows how long.  But yeah, lets start trawling the fucking Skybet and the PL under 23s for some no mark no one has ever heard of who's gran was born in Ayr in 1947 and moved to England when she was 11 days old.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

As above - the best squad we've had in a generation or two, and most of our players are 27 and younger.

The only places where experience/depth is necessary is at goalkeeper and striker.  We don't need to 'see' more full backs, or centre mids, and probably not centre half either.

If there are brilliant prospects, then that's a different question.  However, do we need to see Liam Lindsay to know that he's not as good as McKenna, Hendry, Cooper, Souttar, Porteous, Hanley... and he'd presumably still be behind Halkett and Gallagher?  Nothing against Lindsay, I'm making a point about our depth of options.

Getting a goalkeeper capped, and game time for a fit Stewart and Brown up front would be a priority.  If an u21 player can make a cause (perhaps Elliot Anderson), then great, but as far as I can tell our greatest prospects are either not playing senior football or injured (e.g. Lowry) or still too young (e.g. Doak, Wilson).

In an ideal world, we'd have the main players available, and an opportunity for game time to the good players that are already peripheral.  We have a list of very good players already not getting a game for us.  I don't see any good reason to make that list much longer.

[forameus]

If someone is being poached by another country and wants to choose them rather than potentially wait on us, let them go.  At this stage with the settled squad we have I'd rather everyone was truly dedicated to representing us.  And to be honest, "trapping" people into representing us early so they can't leave and then perhaps realising they're not good enough and punting them probably won't endear us to more youngsters down the line who might be needing to make the same decision.  If they're good enough now, by all means get them in.  We're far from "f**k it, may as well" territory with regards to picking players.

[DiegoDiego]

Capping Lowland League players? "What's the most tinpot thing you've seen in Nations League A?" thread for this pish.

[red23]

4 hours ago, forameus said:

If someone is being poached by another country and wants to choose them rather than potentially wait on us, let them go.  At this stage with the settled squad we have I'd rather everyone was truly dedicated to representing us.  And to be honest, "trapping" people into representing us early so they can't leave and then perhaps realising they're not good enough and punting them probably won't endear us to more youngsters down the line who might be needing to make the same decision.  If they're good enough now, by all means get them in.  We're far from "f**k it, may as well" territory with regards to picking players.

Doing a Wales you mean? They do exactly what i used to do on Champ Manager, get that cap in, lock them in just in case.

[Gordopolis]

Bit of a rambly one this, but bear with me...

Firstly, I agree that this isn't the time or place to start throwing caps around, especially when they won't tie anyone down. The place to ease in the likes of this Bruno Davidson (the 18 year old Celtic player) is the under 18/19/21 squad.

But then there's the problem we have had for decades with our underage sides. Not only do we recycle shite managers, but also there is a clear disconnect between the unders - particularly the u21s - and the full squad.

Fraser Hornby is a good example of this. He was our top scorer at u21 level, yet as soon as he passed the age threshold he basically vanished from the Scotland radar.

The obvious reply to that is that "of course he did, because he's barely made a mark in club football either! He was never good enough."
But if that was so obviously the case, then you have to ask why we used him as our lone striker for so long. If he was obviously never going to cut it at full international level then were we just burning u21 caps by using him instead of someone maybe more likely to make that transition? Of course you could argue there was nobody more suited to playing u21 #9 during that time - I'll admit I'm struggling to think of anyone.

Alternatively you might think Hornby is a decent player who might still develop into a full international. And if that's the case, shouldn't we have a more joined-up and supportive 'bridging' system to guide players towards full recognition, keeping them involved - with perhaps B internationals or something? Or by having the most promising ones join up with the full squad around and for a while after the time of passing the age threshold - maybe not as full squad members, but just to keep them more integrated with things as opposed to just forgetting about them until if/when they hit club form that warrants a full call up?

I realise I'm semi-havering there, but it's pretty dire when, for example, you can't really recall a young striker being promoted from the u21s and actually working for the full team. Maybe McFadden was the last? Miller around the same time - both 20 ish years ago. Since then it's always at 24/25/26 our forwards seem to come through.

[2426255]

4 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

there is a clear disconnect between the unders - particularly the u21s - and the full squad.

If you look at other positions there isn't a disconnect and you could even say there is quite an established pathway. Of the 41 players called up in the last year these players have play u-21's football for Scotland:

• Gordon, Kelly, McRorie, Marshall - Souttar, McKenna, Turnbull, Hanley, Porteous, Kingsley, Ralston, Doig, Taylor, Patterson, O'Donnell, Robertson - McGregor, Gilmour,  Ferguson, Campbell, Jack, McLean, McGinn, Armstrong - Christie, McKay, Fraser.  [27]

These have played u-17/19's football for Scotland:

• Cooper, Halkett, Hickey, Tierney. [4]

These players have never played lower-age football for Scotland, 50% are strikers:

• McLaughlin, Clark - Gallagher, Hendry - McTominay - Dykes, Adams, Brown, Stewart, Nisbet. [10] 

To me that looks more like we aren't producing the strikers we need rather than we aren't creating good enough links with the lower age groups. I think strikers more than most would be on Scotland's radar within the National Team and they just haven't done enough/aren't good enough to merit a call up. I doubt the likes of Fraser Hornby has just been forgotten about given how badly we lack in that area.

Edited October 4, 2022 by 2426255

[Jambomo]

In his interview from the last game against Ukraine, didn’t Clarke say he brought Doig into the squad partly because he wanted players to see there was a pathway into the squad for them if they were good enough?  I think it’s something he’s trying to improve.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Jambomo

[Skyline Drifter]

On 01/10/2022 at 13:58, Gordopolis said:

It wouldn't be just for the sake of it though, would it?
It's the appropriate place to see how he handles playing in goals for his country.
If he's going to shit himself and start crying, I'd rather he did it in this friendly than in the qualifiers next year.

 

He's a professional footballer FFS. He didnt get where he is by falling to pieces every time he has a new challenge any more than Ryan Porteous did.

I really dont get the clamour to "give another keeper match time"

Edited October 4, 2022 by Skyline Drifter

[Gordopolis]

He's a professional footballer FFS. He didnt get where he is by falling to pieces every time he has a new challenge any more than Ryan Porteous did.
I really dont get the clamour to "give another keeper match time"

I agree he's *likely* to be okay if we have to play him for the first time in a competitive game. But this friendly (if it's actually happening) gives us an opportunity to mitigate the risk that he might not handle it well. Well learn more from playing him, even for a half, than we will from having Gordon in goal for the entire game.

[forameus]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He's a professional footballer FFS. He didnt get where he is by falling to pieces every time he has a new challenge any more than Ryan Porteous did.

I really dont get the clamour to "give another keeper match time"

I've never got this either.  I could kind of understand it back in the day where you maybe got to see a handful of matches for players, and calling them up and playing them was probably your best chance to get a feel for how they are.  Nowadays though, Steve Clarke and his team can probably pull up a million different curated examples on each player on demand, with pages and pages of VL stats.  How much extra are you really going to gain by putting that keeper in for a meaningless friendly?  If he makes a mistake, do we just treat that as a sign he's shite?  If he plays a blinder do we never choose another one?

Pick the best keeper that's available when you're due to pick your team.  That's it.

[Gordopolis]

6 hours ago, Jambomo said:

In his interview from the last game against Ukraine, didn’t Clarke say he brought Doig into the squad partly because he wanted players to see there was a pathway into the squad for them if they were good enough?  I think it’s something he’s trying to improve.

Thanks. I missed the comments surrounding Doig's call up. That's really encouraging. 
It sort of seems like it's coming from the wrong direction though - like you'd ideally want the SFA age groups system to be presenting ready-made young players to Steve Clarke, rather than him having to wade in and bring them up. Also you worry that if SC left, that mentality could go with him. A perfect system would transcend any specific manager.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Gordopolis