Monarchy debate/discussion

[DA Baracus]

The queen used this power on multiple occasions. Just one of many reasons she was a piece of shit.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

Absolutely buggery mad mental.
Charlie Windsor has no qualifications which would make him valuable at vetting legislation.
Charlie Windsor has no democratic mandate which makes him accountable for vetting legislation.
Charlie Windsor’s sole right to vet legislation is based on the vagina he was yanked out of seventy-odd years ago.
The fact that any modern country allows this dimwitted, sausage-fingered frump any say on laws beyond a vote equal to anyone else’s is batshit insane - a travesty.

I agree with all that, but there's nothing new here, we've been living in a monarchy for centuries (other than Big Ollie C).

Which is every reason to rail against it louder and louder - and before the latest crowned clown is transformed by the media into a benevolent saint. Part of the reason the UK is so resistant to changing its institutions in any way is something Thomas Paine recognised centuries ago: “the long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it the superficial appearance of being right”.

There’s patently nothing right about an incompetent, unelected halfwit like Charlie vetting legislation, as there was nothing right about his greedy old b*****d of a mother doing the same. If we must have a monarchy (hopefully not for long) then rather than continuing the secrecy and corruption around it (which is what the institution itself clearly expects), we should be seeking to expose and end it.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Brother Blades said:

This is a scandal, I’m really disappointed in the SG for allowing this to happen & not legislating for FOI to allow us to know exactly what changes if any have been made.

King Charles proving pretty quickly he’s as big a c**t as mama. 

I’m not convinced the Scottish government has power over this (and definitely not over FOI). We only have the most powerful devolved parliament in the world, after all. That’s nothing compared to the glorious, God-appointed monarch or the superior, loyalist parliament in Westminster, which has, over the centuries, insisted upon shielding the corrupt buffoons in crowns from all criticism and ensuring the devolved executives and legislatures follow suit.

Remember that the elected Leann Wood  was chucked out of the Welsh Assembly for referring to the unelected Lizzie as “Mrs Windsor” rather than her majesty the Queen. That’s the mentality of UK democracy towards the aristocracy.

[Clown Job]

Charles already comes across as a guy born into wealth and privilege

Whereas Lizzie never did, not at least publicly

Mind she’s the one who served during WW2, all in it together like the regular plebs.

 

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Clown Job said:

Charles already comes across as a guy born into wealth and privilege

Whereas Lizzie never did, not at least publicly

Mind she’s the one who served during WW2, all in it together like the regular plebs.

 

Aye, she built the HMS Vanguard single-handedly, using only elastic bands and cardboard, carried 100 honest British tommies on her back across the Channel from Dunkirk, and was always on hand to give Churchill a swift handy-j to keep his dander up.

Whereas all Charlie’s done is wished he was a tampon, built a Lego town, and pulled a Catherine the Great by pumping a horse.

[Brother Blades]

6 minutes ago, Antlion said:

I’m not convinced the Scottish government has power over this (and definitely not over FOI). We only have the most powerful devolved parliament in the world, after all. That’s nothing compared to the glorious, God-appointed monarch or the superior, loyalist parliament in Westminster, which has, over the centuries, insisted upon shielding the corrupt buffoons in crowns from all criticism and ensuring the devolved executives and legislatures follow suit.

Remember that the elected Leann Wood  was chucked out of the Welsh Assembly for referring to the unelected Lizzie as “Mrs Windsor” rather than her majesty the Queen. That’s the mentality of UK democracy towards the aristocracy.

Maybe I’ve picked the article up incorrectly? Or it’s biased? But it seems to suggest that both Labour & Lib Dem’s have asked for legislation to make this more transparent? Happy to be proved wrong, but to me it seems the SNP have shat it. 

[DA Baracus]

13 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Charles already comes across as a guy born into wealth and privilege

Whereas Lizzie never did, not at least publicly

Mind she’s the one who served during WW2, all in it together like the regular plebs.

 

Is this a wind up post?

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

Maybe I’ve picked the article up incorrectly? Or it’s biased? But it seems to suggest that both Labour & Lib Dem’s have asked for legislation to make this more transparent? Happy to be proved wrong, but to me it seems the SNP have shat it. 

Wouldn’t surprise me. The SNP are very much keen on keeping the fat-fingered gimp on side. Don’t kid yourself though - so are Labour and the Lib Dems, who can’t get enough loyalist chat in when it comes to the aristos. What’s galling is that so few individual MSPs and MPs are really brainwashed into genuinely thinking a royal title = unquestionable godlike status and an absolute entitlement to political influence. Yes, some really are that bonkers, but far too many are willing to bend the knee so as not to rock the boat. And it certainly won’t be any major party’s policy to state that the emperor has no clothes.

The only hope in hell we have of punting the Windsors from their gravy train is gaining independence and then punting the SNP in favour of a party which isn’t willing to kowtow, even politically, to these scammers.

[Richey Edwards]

Just now, Antlion said:

The only hope in hell we have of punting the Windsors from their gravy train is gaining independence and then punting the SNP in favour of a party which isn’t willing to kowtow, even politically, to these scammers.

The SNP will splinter once independence is achieved anyway.

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said:

The SNP will splinter once independence is achieved anyway.

I reckon they’d have to. Every party would have to put forward visions of what they want Scotland to look like and how they’d achieve it with all the powers of an independent state’s government. Currently, different politicians can band together as long as they have limited agendas - increase and widen those agendas and I doubt they’ll be unified as a single party.

The same goes for other parties too, of course. Hopefully the vestiges of Labour’s branch office would finally be flushed down the shitter of history and an actual Scottish Labour Party would be built. Just tell Sarwar there’s money in the sewer and Baillie that there’s a hamburger supper, and they’ll go quickly at least.

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

I reckon they’d have to. Every party would have to put forward visions of what they want Scotland to look like and how they’d achieve it with all the powers of an independent state’s government. Currently, different politicians can band together as long as they have limited agendas - increase and widen those agendas and I doubt they’ll be unified as a single party.

The same goes for other parties too, of course. Hopefully the vestiges of Labour’s branch office would finally be flushed down the shitter of history and an actual Scottish Labour Party would be built. Just tell Sarwar there’s money in the sewer and Baillie that there’s a hamburger supper, and they’ll go quickly at least.

Yep. Within the SNP membership and voter base, you have people from various positions on the political spectrum unified under the banner of Scottish Independence. 

Once that is achieved, there will be no reason for them to club together anymore.

All of the branch office parties whose only policy is stopping independence would hopefully f**k off and allow some credible and legitimate parties to emerge with actual visions of how to take an independent Scotland forward. Apart from the Tories, they can all f**k off. I bet a Conservative Party in an independent Scotland would spend an eternity campaigning for a referendum on rejoining the UK.

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

 I bet a Conservative Party in an independent Scotland would spend an eternity campaigning for a referendum on rejoining the UK.

The best bit about that would be the dawning realisation when their 'counterparts' down south just laugh and tell them to GTF.

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

The best bit about that would be the dawning realisation when their 'counterparts' down south just laugh and tell them to GTF.

JRM's description of the Scottish Conservative Leader as "quite a lightweight figure" was some laugh tbh.

[Antlion]

15 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

 

All of the branch office parties whose only policy is stopping independence would hopefully f**k off and allow some credible and legitimate parties to emerge with actual visions of how to take an independent Scotland forward. Apart from the Tories, they can all f**k off. I bet a Conservative Party in an independent Scotland would spend an eternity campaigning for a referendum on rejoining the UK.

I’ve wondered about this. I don’t know of any party in modern history (prepared to be wrong on this) which, on their country achieving independent statehood, has fought tooth and nail to dissolve it entirely and become a region of another country.

Are there parties in Ireland who campaign to fold statehood and return to being a minor part of the UK? Are there Portuguese parties who want to dissolve their parliament and be ruled as an Iberian region from Madrid? Or Norwegian parties who are desperate for Denmark to join with them as the dominant partner, closing down Oslo’s Storting and maybe reopening it as a wee devolved legislature, answerable to the Folketing in Copenhagen? It seems to me any party trying to cancel its own nation’s independence and desperate to form a wee bit of a state governed from elsewhere would be a laughing stock.

Don’t get me wrong, I can imagine absolute loonballs like Murdo Fraser humiliating themselves by standing on a ticket of “let’s dissolve our independent Scotland and invite the parliament in England to rule us!”. But surely an official right-wing party would put its energies into trying to convince Scots of the merits of a right-of-centre Scottish state government (hopefully without success, but still…).

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

I’ve wondered about this. I don’t know of any party in modern history (prepared to be wrong on this) which, on their country achieving independent statehood, has fought tooth and nail to dissolve it entirely and become a region of another country.

Are there parties in Ireland who campaign to fold statehood and return to being a minor part of the UK? Are there Portuguese parties who want to dissolve their parliament and be ruled as an Iberian region from Madrid? Or Norwegian parties who are desperate for Denmark to join with them as the dominant partner, closing down Oslo’s Storting and maybe reopening it as a wee devolved legislature, answerable to the Folketing in Copenhagen? It seems to me any party trying to cancel its own nation’s independence and desperate to form a wee bit of a state governed from elsewhere would be a laughing stock.

Don’t get me wrong, I can imagine absolute loonballs like Murdo Fraser humiliating themselves by standing on a ticket of “let’s dissolve our independent Scotland and invite the parliament in England to rule us!”. But surely an official right-wing party would put its energies into trying to convince Scots of the merits of a right-of-centre Scottish state government (hopefully without success, but still…).

A large portion of the current Scottish Conservative voter base are people who are opposed to Scottish independence rather than people who are genuinely Tories. I think a Conservative party in an independent Scotland would sink without trace when they don't have that carrot for the stupid people who think every election is a de facto independence referendum to vote for them. We appear to generally be a left-leaning country, and I do not see any right-of-centre party gaining much support.

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said:

A large portion of the current Scottish Conservative voter base are people who are opposed to Scottish independence rather than people who are genuinely Tories. I think a Conservative party in an independent Scotland would sink without trace when they don't have that carrot for the stupid people who think every election is a de facto independence referendum to vote for them. We appear to generally be a left-leaning country, and I do not see any right-of-centre party gaining much support.

Hopefully - but there are definitely enough selfish, entitled, xenophobic, “I’m alright Jack” p***ks in Scotland who lean right to far-right, whether economically or socially (look at the despicable Scottish Family Party). Currently, they’ve mostly found their home with the Tory politics of grudge and grievance against foreigners.

In an iScotland, I’d hope that we’d elect left leaning governments with a social conscience, but it would be abnormal if we didn’t have an alternative. I can envisage their campaigning approach now - promoting right-wing policies on a ticket of now having to take full fiscal responsibility (in other words protecting the wealthy and making the rich richer).

Thankfully, the Tories have pretty much sewn up the right-wing vote and conflated it with cringing servitude to Westminster rule. It would therefore be difficult for an emerging right-wing party to try and appropriate Scottish independence for their own ends, as the stink of having been on the wrong side of history would taint them for generations.

[Clown Job]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Is this a wind up post?

Nope

The gammons lap that stuff up

A monarch that served in WW2

Instant erection for them

[Antlion]

9 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Nope

The gammons lap that stuff up

A monarch that served in WW2

Instant erection for them

There’s a reason the monarchy has long associated itself as publicly as possible with the armed forces, to the extent of pushing the younger ones into brief terms of “service”, and forever inventing medals to deck their cosplay outfits. They rely on linking monarchy with tub-thumping nationalist “patriotism” because it’s gets the UKNats’ flagpoles up. Working up dewy-eyed, war-obsessed nationalist fervour is all the ex-empire has left, and it needs to be stoked if the leaders are to retain their plum positions and incomes.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Antlion

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Nope

The gammons lap that stuff up

A monarch that served in WW2

Instant erection for them

The uncomfortable truth is that the biggest gammon is Nippy Quine o' Scots:

 

This is embarrassing.

 

[Antlion]

10 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

The uncomfortable truth is that the biggest gammon is Nippy Quine o' Scots:

 

This is embarrassing.

 

Hideous, but not quite as hilarious as the team you support attempting to worship a corpse by fashioning an image of it crossed with Harambe. Did you find this as embarrassing, or have you given up supporting the newly-minted “gammon” team?