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The Official Liz Truss no longer PM but still a Clusterfuck thread


Clown Job

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24 minutes ago, virginton said:

That would be such a terrible, wee shame for them. Actions finally having consequences after 35 years, for the regions that are responsible for maintaining the Union and Tory rule. 

Will we start a GoFundMe for all the BtL speculators who will shortly be getting their baws booted? Get me 12% and all those parasites in a debtors' jail. 

youre-not-high-enough-higher-please.gif.f7b449d1a3d55f97b2643f1e1d4b233a.gif

Good job that it's only going to affect landlords and not literally everyone. Otherwise I'd be worried.

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43 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

 

The 23rd of November is an eternity in the current turmoil, and it's inconceivable that interest rates will remain at their current level by then.  All of which will politically stress the Truss Government towards breaking point, so kudos to Mr Kwarteng that he considers that he or his Prime Minister will still be in position by then 

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10 hours ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

 

It's a really frightening prospect for a lot of people. Anyone on an even vaguely normal salary will have had to stretch really themselves to get a mortgage down here. For even a small 2 bed house you won't get any change out of £400k virtually anywhere in greater London. 6% interest rates will completely f*ck an enormous number of people.

The buy to let market will completely collapse. Every cloud has it's silver lining.

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Incidentally I've just received my email to get a new rate, my fixed rate ends in 3 months. I'm at 50% ltv and my current fixed rate is 1.97%. The new no-fee rate for the same period as last time is currently 4.29%. The thing is I'd probably be better taking it now as well before it gets any worse.

Truss and Kwarteng can get fucked. Between this, energy bills and uncontrollable inflation how many millions of people are going to be destitute this winter? Evil c***s.

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17 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Incidentally I've just received my email to get a new rate, my fixed rate ends in 3 months. I'm at 50% ltv and my current fixed rate is 1.97%. The new no-fee rate for the same period as last time is currently 4.29%. The thing is I'd probably be better taking it now as well before it gets any worse.

Truss and Kwarteng can get fucked. Between this, energy bills and uncontrollable inflation how many millions of people are going to be destitute this winter? Evil c***s.

Similar scenario for me. I fixed 2/3 of my mortgage in July - it’s now on 2.49% for 10 years. The other third is due for renewal next year. It’s currently on something silly like 1.49%. The best fix I can get for it today is 4.19% with a £550 exit fee from my current deal. That’s about a £90 per month increase in payments plus a hefty fee. But the thing is if I wait it’ll almost certainly be a lot, lot more over a long, long period.

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9 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

The 23rd of November is an eternity in the current turmoil, and it's inconceivable that interest rates will remain at their current level by then.  All of which will politically stress the Truss Government towards breaking point, so kudos to Mr Kwarteng that he considers that he or his Prime Minister will still be in position by then 

But they get the added of bonus of having the media and the media gullible spending a few weeks normalising the idea of far higher interest rates for the greater good (with no mention of the inevitable big recession that will follow).

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22 minutes ago, Detournement said:

But they get the added of bonus of having the media and the media gullible spending a few weeks normalising the idea of far higher interest rates for the greater good (with no mention of the inevitable big recession that will follow).

I see where you are coming from based on historic precedence, but this isn't a slow unfolding decline like Brexit or long-term economic performance.  As the posters above state, there are now immediate adverse effects for millions of people, and the combination of rocketing shop and fuel prices and now a plunging pound coupled with surging mortgage payments cannot be waved away by fantasy headlines in the Daily Express.

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2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I see where you are coming from based on historic precedence, but this isn't a slow unfolding decline like Brexit or long-term economic performance.  As the posters above state, there are now immediate adverse effects for millions of people, and the combination of rocketing shop and fuel prices and now a plunging pound coupled with surging mortgage payments cannot be waved away by fantasy headlines in the Daily Express.

That's true but I was talking about the specific point of interest rate rises which are now being spoken about by the media as inevitable and necessary despite that not being the case. 

All interest rate rises will do is protect the financial interests of bondholders and banks. They will be a disaster for households and small and medium businesses yet they are being spoken of as if they are some sort of rescue package against the idiocy of the Truss government. 

It's the same Nudge Unit playbook as we saw over and over during Covid. Leak an unpopular policy which might happen, announce it won't happen, have their media allies demand it is implemented then when enough consent has been manufactured amongst voters sensitive to media messaging they implement it as if they had no other choice.

 

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1 hour ago, Detournement said:

That's true but I was talking about the specific point of interest rate rises which are now being spoken about by the media as inevitable and necessary despite that not being the case. 

The problem is, so long as the US Federal Reserve continues to strengthen the dollar with rate hikes of their own then they are necessary. Unless you are suggesting that the pound being equal to about 90 cents is a good strategy in the long run.

What we are seeing here is the economic policies adopted during covid coming home to roost, those then being further exacerbated by waging economic warfare on an energy superpower and being forced to buy energy from another instead (one which just so happens to be the home of the aforementioned dollar), and then topped off by replacing a bumbling, but largely conservative and predictable, PM in Boris Johnson.

I've being saying it for ages but the same people who are now calling the Tories all sorts are the same people, by and large, that aggressively championed both the covid response (in terms of both restrictions, extenstions of furlough, and massive QE to pay for everything) and fully support the actions being taken against Russia. Yes the Tories have been corrupt as f**k with parts of how they managed both (contracts to their pals, refusal to implement windfall taxes etc) that have made the situation worse, but the unavoidable fact is that it is the core responses themselves that have created this situation.

Every single person who stuck their head above the parapet to caution about where we were headed was shot down en masse.

It is also worth remembering that it was Tory Party Members rather than MPs who voted for Truss (The MPs voted for Sunak), so whilst they are definitely c***s, LT is not their doing.

In short, the public in general appear short sighted and naïve, and have continually failed to grasp that doing what they may perceive to be morally correct in every situation might make them feel better about doing so but that it can have drastic consequences that they might want to consider before throwing their unwavering support behind them.

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14 hours ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

Good job that it's only going to affect landlords and not literally everyone. Otherwise I'd be worried.

The mass deindustrialisation and hollowing out of the 1980s affected literally everyone in west-central Scotland and much of northern England. The history books don't show any solidarity whatsoever from Edinburgh and southern England though - who kept voting for the institutions (the Tory party and the Union) that served their narrow interest.

A property crash decimating those regions would be the most effective levelling policy the Tories could achieve, and would also be karmic justice. 

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40 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The problem is, so long as the US Federal Reserve continues to strengthen the dollar with rate hikes of their own then they are necessary. Unless you are suggesting that the pound being equal to about 90 cents is a good strategy in the long run.

What we are seeing here is the economic policies adopted during covid coming home to roost, those then being further exacerbated by waging economic warfare on an energy superpower and being forced to buy energy from another instead (one which just so happens to be the home of the aforementioned dollar), and then topped off by replacing a bumbling, but largely conservative and predictable, PM in Boris Johnson.

I've being saying it for ages but the same people who are now calling the Tories all sorts are the same people, by and large, that aggressively championed both the covid response (in terms of both restrictions, extenstions of furlough, and massive QE to pay for everything) and fully support the actions being taken against Russia. Yes the Tories have been corrupt as f**k with parts of how they managed both (contracts to their pals, refusal to implement windfall taxes etc) that have made the situation worse, but the unavoidable fact is that it is the core responses themselves that have created this situation.

Every single person who stuck their head above the parapet to caution about where we were headed was shot down en masse.

It is also worth remembering that it was Tory Party Members rather than MPs who voted for Truss (The MPs voted for Sunak), so whilst they are definitely c***s, LT is not their doing.

In short, the public in general appear short sighted and naïve, and have continually failed to grasp that doing what they may perceive to be morally correct in every situation might make them feel better about doing so but that it can have drastic consequences that they might want to consider before throwing their unwavering support behind them.

I don't agree. Truss got 113 votes, Sunak got 137 and Mordaunt got 105. Truss wasn't exactly rejected by Tory MPs. Nothing to do with the public and as Welshbairn says the Tory membership could be anyone, anywhere.

The campaign to get rid of Boris and the false narrative about the impact of sanctions were media led campaigns. You can even see it on here when the sensible centrists were posting about sanctions devasting Russians without a single thought about how it might impact people here including themselves. Again I don't think the public had much to do with that. You can't really blame people for reacting to the stimuli they been trained to respond for their entire lives. 

Every issue and public debate in this country is led by the media so the blame lies with the class of people that own the private media and control the BBC. 

 

 

Edited by Detournement
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25 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't agree. Truss got 113 votes, Sunak got 137 and Mordaunt got 105. Truss wasn't exactly rejected by Tory MPs.

Saying you don't agree that MPs aren't responsible for LT, then producing figures that show they aren't to support this is an interesting tactic I'll give you that.

25 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Nothing to do with the public 

Given that we have established that LT is not PM because of MP support the above is nonsense - it has everything to do with the public.

As shown below, Sunak won every MP balot. LT wasn't even in the top 2 until the 4th ballot.

25 minutes ago, Detournement said:

as Welshbairn says the Tory membership could be anyone, anywhere.

Like the public?

Screenshot_20220927_131103.jpg

Edited by Todd_is_God
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The results of the MPs votes are decided prior to voting. It's all horse trading. If the Tory MPs as a group wanted to avoid Truss being PM they would have manufactured that result. 

There are less than 100,000 Tory members and not all of them live in the UK. They in no way represent "the public". 

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40 minutes ago, Detournement said:

You can't really blame people for reacting to the stimuli they been trained to respond for their entire lives. 

The entire premise of my post was that people are either incapable of, or choose not to partake in, independent foresight of what the impact of what they (in this case very vocally) support might be. So yes, I can blame them.

10 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The results of the MPs votes are decided prior to voting. It's all horse trading. If the Tory MPs as a group wanted to avoid Truss being PM they would have manufactured that result. 

There are less than 100,000 Tory members and not all of them live in the UK. They in no way represent "the public". 

There are at least 172,473 (assuming the graphic was correct) however that isn't really relevant. At no point did I say the Conservative Party Members represented the UK Public. I said that it was the party membership (who, as non MPs, are members of the public) who elected LT as PM rather than MPs.

I'm not really sure what point you are making here tbh.

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1 hour ago, virginton said:

The mass deindustrialisation and hollowing out of the 1980s affected literally everyone in west-central Scotland and much of northern England. The history books don't show any solidarity whatsoever from Edinburgh and southern England though - who kept voting for the institutions (the Tory party and the Union) that served their narrow interest.

A property crash decimating those regions would be the most effective levelling policy the Tories could achieve, and would also be karmic justice. 

All the while, the good people of Inverclyde will be miraculously unaffected by spiralling interest rates. Presumably, no-one in Greenock owns their own home or rents from a private landlord.

I live in London and have been saving for the best part of a decade to buy somewhere. I'm also lucky to be in a profession that has excellent job security, so any downturn won't cost me my job. A huge property crash would directly benefit me but the prospect doesn't excite me because of the huge harm it will do to an enormous number of people.

For someone who is so consistently scathing of the Conservative party, there are few people on here who consistently give off such sociopathic, I'm alright Jack vibes as you.

 

Edited by Carl Cort's Hamstring
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