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The Official Liz Truss no longer PM but still a Clusterfuck thread


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1 hour ago, doulikefish said:

Remember these tax cuts announced don't come in til next April so plenty of time for it to not happen 

You need something like 35 or 36 Tory MPs to vote against it for that to happen. 

There must be several who know alternative employment will be required when the next election comes up and therefore have little to lose, but as fed up as Tory MPs seem to be, they generally refuse to vote against the government. 

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4 minutes ago, Michael W said:

You need something like 35 or 36 Tory MPs to vote against it for that to happen. 

There must be several who know alternative employment will be required when the next election comes up and therefore have little to lose, but as fed up as Tory MPs seem to be, they generally refuse to vote against the government. 

I was thinking more "economic forecasts means the cuts won't happen" in another "mini" budget around Feb/march type of thing as the cost of living really bites over winter 

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So we now live in a country whose government believes that the best way to stop poverty is to give the rich tax cuts! A footballer earning £20K a week will get £55000 a year tax cut. Another earning £200K a week gets over half a million back a year. 
meanwhile an employer offers workers 0.25% pay rise and legally their union must put that offer to their members. If it’s rejected the employer can then increase the offer to 0.3% and that too must be voted on by the union members and on and on it goes. Effectively outlawing strike action!

We must get out of this vile union NOW!

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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Up to the SG I think

Currently 46% in Scotland. Good lads. 

Also SDLT is devolved so that won't affect Scotland. 

SG to get allocated £600m extra over "spending review period". presumaby that's due to Barnet. 

1 hour ago, doulikefish said:

Remember these tax cuts announced don't come in til next April so plenty of time for it to not happen 

NICs comes in from November. CT already in place. 

 

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35 minutes ago, renton said:

Your wrong. 

She's a true believer. That's what makes it worse. In two years she thinks she'll win a 100 seat majority on the back of her bold plan to get work shy Brits busting a gut and growing the economy.

In what way is she a true believer? She's gone from a "guillotine the lot of them" Lib Dem, to a One Nation Tory Remainer, and now a hard-brexit loving fascist. 

She doesn't 'believe' in anything. She's an opportunist and careerist who only has the interests of herself and her immediate circle in mind when undertaking any action whatsoever. She's a dangerous cretin because she has no morals, no empathy, and no long-term hope of continuing as the prime minister past the next election. Means her brand of corruption, obliteration of public services, and general misery making for the poorest in society will be accelerated even past the majority of what these scumbags would be willing to gamble. She's on borrowed time, she knows it, and she's going to take advantage of it.

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5 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

In what way is she a true believer? She's gone from a "guillotine the lot of them" Lib Dem, to a One Nation Tory Remainer, and now a hard-brexit loving fascist. 

She doesn't 'believe' in anything. She's an opportunist and careerist who only has the interests of herself and her immediate circle in mind when undertaking any action whatsoever. She's a dangerous cretin because she has no morals, no empathy, and no long-term hope of continuing as the prime minister past the next election. Means her brand of corruption, obliteration of public services, and general misery making for the poorest in society will be accelerated even past the majority of what these scumbags would be willing to gamble. She's on borrowed time, she knows it, and she's going to take advantage of it.

She's always been a small state fanatic. Plenty of those in certain areas of the Lib Dems. She helped write Britannia Unchained alongside others including Kwarteng back in 2011 - which is basically this "fiscal event" made manifest so its not like this is something they've cooked up on the hoof.

If it was only self interest motivating her then it'd be easy enough to keep Johnson-ite populist positions on most things, try and be quietly dignified and wait for the Labour poll lead to collapse.

This isn't intended as a defence, she is setting fire to thr UK economy on a hunch that even most economic liberals would blanche at. 

All I'm saying is this is likely to get even worse than many think, because she believes this shit. She'll dig in even when it's all going to shit around her.

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2 hours ago, Paco said:


Only on about two grands worth under £15k.

Unless the SG move with at least some of these changes, anyone earning over £14,732 will be paying more tax than the equivalent job in the rest of the UK

Good.

We are different countries and I'd rather rather we didn't trade our public sector and civic society on a race to the bottom for above average earners.

Add in council tax and most people in Scotlsnd will still pay less than rUK 

 

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Good.
We are different countries and I'd rather rather we didn't trade our public sector and civic society on a race to the bottom for above average earners.
Add in council tax and most people in Scotlsnd will still pay less than rUK 
 

I don’t disagree with the sentiment but a) people earning £15k are not “above average earners” and b) good luck selling that to the population at large, it’s gold for opposition parties and media.

I suspect what we’ll see is some attempt at one-upmanship from the SG - let’s be honest, that’s exactly what the current system is. At a guess, something like the starter rate of 19% being lowered to 18%, possibly with the threshold you begin to pay 21% moved up a little, and the rest being left as is or close to it. A moral victory as low earners pay less than the rest of the UK but anyone over the low 20s paying more.

I think about £34k is currently the ‘tipping point’ where you begin to pay more tax on wages in Scotland, with about 55% paying less than they do in the rest of the UK. Those ratios will end up shifting a fair bit.
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59 minutes ago, Paco said:


I don’t disagree with the sentiment but a) people earning £15k are not “above average earners” and b) good luck selling that to the population at large, it’s gold for opposition parties and media.

I suspect what we’ll see is some attempt at one-upmanship from the SG - let’s be honest, that’s exactly what the current system is. At a guess, something like the starter rate of 19% being lowered to 18%, possibly with the threshold you begin to pay 21% moved up a little, and the rest being left as is or close to it. A moral victory as low earners pay less than the rest of the UK but anyone over the low 20s paying more.

I think about £34k is currently the ‘tipping point’ where you begin to pay more tax on wages in Scotland, with about 55% paying less than they do in the rest of the UK. Those ratios will end up shifting a fair bit.

Well I hope they don't and explain why.

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She's not doing it for her friends. It'll benefit them, sure, but it'll benefit all those groups that the ideology of the Right believe drive the economy. They couldn't give a flying f**k about poverty, social deprivation, the need for food and warm banks. This is the most disgusting swerve into the politics of right-wing ideologues imaginable. The blame was clearly shown earlier this week on the attack on p/t workers. Scotland of course has another way forward. This "union" has to end. 

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Despicable Tory c***s. 

Awaiting the collective amnesia across gammon UK when, finally, Labour stumble in the door and get the blame for trying (and no doubt failing) to fix this mountainous funeral pyre of faeces Truss and her wee right-wing fucknugget pals are building over the next 2 years. 

This is nothing short of sabotage. They should be flipping cars over south of the border. The current govt were not elected on this mandate. 

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There has been much speculation surrounding Thick Lizzy's mental equilibrium, but I think this week confirms it.  Any politician who takes the office of Prime Minister and then gleefully advertises their willingness to be unpopular from the outset is both deluded and dangerous. 

Today's performance from Kwarteng confirms the pair of them as Westminster's Thelma and Louise.  Let's hope it ends the same way, and soon.

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Quote

I completely despair, because I’m a member of a party that stands up for the squeezed middle not the very rich. This will be politically toxic and economically dubious,” said another MP present for the statement.

Someone must have ticked the wrong box when they joined and then stood for election as a member of the fucking Tory party. 

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3 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Good.

We are different countries and I'd rather rather we didn't trade our public sector and civic society on a race to the bottom for above average earners.

Add in council tax and most people in Scotland will still pay less than rUK 

 

Add what about council tax? Councils and Cosla are consistently bleating about a lack of resources. Councils like Inverclyde are facing up to absolutely brutal cuts to services over the next few years. 

Council leaders are not immune from responsibility for that either, but the idea that pinning down council tax is a viable holding position for the SG is no longer sustainable. 

3 hours ago, Paco said:

 At a guess, something like the starter rate of 19% being lowered to 18%, possibly with the threshold you begin to pay 21% moved up a little, and the rest being left as is or close to it. A moral victory as low earners pay less than the rest of the UK but anyone over the low 20s paying more.

I think about £34k is currently the ‘tipping point’ where you begin to pay more tax on wages in Scotland, with about 55% paying less than they do in the rest of the UK. Those ratios will end up shifting a fair bit.

Yep, they should quite clearly adjust some of the figures as you describe. The scale of the cuts south of the border actually makes it much easier politically speaking to set a more progressive course than breaking from the status quo would have done. 

Keeping the current rates because reckless Toooooaaaarrrries isn't going to wash. They were probably the best that could have been achieved then - now the SG should readjust and do even better. 

Edited by vikingTON
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The last couple of days have been beyond belief. Since December 2019 I've been of the mind that the UK is past the point of no return so there's nothing to be gained by worrying about parliamentary stuff but despite seeing the UK government and the Bank of England persue directly contradictory economic policies is genuinely shocking. Add in Kwarteng brazenly announcing that his only concern is feathering the nests of the richest in society when we are facing a huge recesession and the pound going to 1.10 against the dollar and it's obvious that things are going to get a lot worse. 

Neoliberalism has failed and our ruling class no longer function as a class but there is nothing to replace them with. There is nothing we can do as working class people other than prepare for hardship. 

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16 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There has been much speculation surrounding Thick Lizzy's mental equilibrium, but I think this week confirms it.  Any politician who takes the office of Prime Minister and then gleefully advertises their willingness to be unpopular from the outset is both deluded and dangerous. 

Today's performance from Kwarteng confirms the pair of them as Westminster's Thelma and Louise.  Let's hope it ends the same way, and soon.

It’s being described as Kami-Kwasi economics. Seems apt.

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Truss and Kwarteng obviously know they only have 18 months or so in power and have no goals other than funneling as much cash to their backers as possible and leaving the public finances in tatters so that Starmer has an a ready made excuse to govern as a fiscal conservative. 

They aren't stupid they are crooks.

 

Edited by Detournement
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