How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

I’m not arguing a case I’m giving an opinion on what I believe to be most likely. Can I prove that ? No more than you can prove it wrong.

 

Offer a theory then.

If inheritance is not the only reason, what else is going on?

[Jinky67]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Offer a theory then.

If inheritance is not the only reason, what else is going on?

There is definitely an aspect where TV plays a part. The increased TV coverage will be an influence especially when kids see a particular team being successful over and over and more so if they lack a male influence in their life. You see that with the vast number of people who became Man U fans when the Premier League started.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

There is definitely an aspect where TV plays a part. The increased TV coverage will be an influence especially when kids see a particular team being successful over and over and more so if they lack a male influence in their life. You see that with the vast number of people who became Man U fans when the Premier League started.

 

I'd agree.

The nature and balance of TV coverage doesn't therefore just reflect interest; it also helps shape it.  Glamorous, much hyped, lucrative European tournaments simply feed into it all. 

I can't tell you how much I resent the damage it does to the rest of us.

You get people on here asking why I care, because my team would never be a natural rival to the country's biggest anyway. They totally miss the point.  All our clubs suffer because of our warped picture.

There was an acceptance that Gretna posed a threat to us on their way up, due to geographical proximity, even though the distance was considerable.   However, the OF do us far more damage, and it's direct and incredibly destructive.

[Dons_1988]

25 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'd agree.

The nature and balance of TV coverage doesn't therefore just reflect interest; it also helps shape it.  Glamorous, much hyped, lucrative European tournaments simply feed into it all. 

I can't tell you how much I resent the damage it does to the rest of us.

You get people on here asking why I care, because my team would never be a natural rival to the country's biggest anyway. They totally miss the point.  All our clubs suffer because of our warped picture.

There was an acceptance that Gretna posed a threat to us on their way up, due to geographical proximity, even though the distance was considerable.   However, the OF do us far more damage, and it's direct and incredibly destructive.

Tv gave rise to the casual football fan. The ones who watch football like I would watch tennis. I like tennis but I’m not going to sit through the world 127 playing 89. I want to see Djokovic slug it out with nadal. 

casual football fans want to either see the best football possible or support a team that wins, or both. They don’t like it enough or dedicate enough time to it to support a mid table bang average side that don’t win that often. 

At an individual level you’d probably say there’s not that much wrong with having a hobby and supporting who you want but the reality is fans of regional clubs across Europe have just been frozen out of ever having real or sustained success as a result. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

52 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

How come the numbers have significantly increased for some and massively shrunk for others then?

Don't argue your case by simply restating it in the face of challenging evidence.

See the auld label of ****/tins without the busfare, there was a wee bit of truth in that. But it’s almost non existent now. 
when there were 4 tv channels and nae internet, all the games kicked off at 3pm. If rangers were away from home and the majority had no chance of getting in, many would go and watch local sides or a junior team or whoever, just so that they could watch a game of fitbaw. Perhaps with a few pints and a line at the bookies..

the vast majority of people of people who would have once went and watched an alternative team when they were unable to see their  preferred one, now simply won’t go at all

 

[AyrshireTon]

2 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

Pretty much, i think @AyrshireTon made a similar point about his son supporting Morton yet living in Ayrshire.

Both clubs always had a pretty big support however these supporters have kids, the kids grow up supporting the team their dad did however move into other areas for work, get married, have kids who then follow the dad and this cycle repeats itself, it is to be expected and also expected that dads aren't really going to encourage their kids to then support the local team as they enjoy taking their boy to the football like their dad did with them and so on

 

I’d say this is usually the case, but there will be exceptions.

Guy I worked with was an Aberdeen fan but couldn’t get to games due to Saturday morning work commitments. He took his son to watch Ayr United (their nearest senior team) and his son grew up an Ayr fan. On the rare occasions that Ayr played Aberdeen in a cup, the two of them would watch the game from different ends. Both love the sport and take in random games too (they once drove up to see us play St. Mirren in the League Cup).

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said:

I’d say this is usually the case, but there will be exceptions.

Guy I worked with was an Aberdeen fan but couldn’t get to games due to Saturday morning work commitments. He took his son to watch Ayr United (their nearest senior team) and his son grew up an Ayr fan. On the rare occasions that Ayr played Aberdeen in a cup, the two of them would watch the game from different ends. Both love the sport and take in random games too (they once drove up to see us play St. Mirren in the League Cup).

My Dad supports Dundee because he's from there.

My first ever game was Queens v Dundee in 1976.  He supported Dundee while I supported Queens because I'm from Dumfries.  My son is too and supports them.  If I still lived elsewhere, as I did as a younger adult, he'd have been encouraged to support the team local to him, that he could go and watch.

[TheScarf]

Old firm fans will never get that you’re allowed to support a different team than your dad.

[Monkey Tennis]

58 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

See the auld label of ****/tins without the busfare, there was a wee bit of truth in that. But it’s almost non existent now. 
when there were 4 tv channels and nae internet, all the games kicked off at 3pm. If rangers were away from home and the majority had no chance of getting in, many would go and watch local sides or a junior team or whoever, just so that they could watch a game of fitbaw. Perhaps with a few pints and a line at the bookies..

the vast majority of people of people who would have once went and watched an alternative team when they were unable to see their  preferred one, now simply won’t go at all

 

Yes, I think that's absolutely true.

Far more people in communities up and down the country, however, would now identify as OF fans than would formerly have been the case.  

It's now easier - and I suppose rewarding if you're like that - to back an OF side.  It's allowed the local side to be an irrelevance for you now, yet still let you follow football.

It buys people a stake in what the media constantly covers, in the banter at work or at school.  You can watch it in the pub, or a mate's house.  You can even go to matches, despite living nowhere near Glasgow.

 

It does let you refer to 'us' and 'we', when speaking of something that's guaranteed to be successful. The attraction is clear for those who want such things.

[accies1874]

Looking at the numbers of Scottish players currently featuring for the uglies, especially Sevco, they're not remotely helping the game here.

Data scouting has killed Scottish football more than PlayStations have imo

See the auld label of ****/tins without the busfare, there was a wee bit of truth in that. But it’s almost non existent now. 
when there were 4 tv channels and nae internet, all the games kicked off at 3pm. If rangers were away from home and the majority had no chance of getting in, many would go and watch local sides or a junior team or whoever, just so that they could watch a game of fitbaw. Perhaps with a few pints and a line at the bookies..
the vast majority of people of people who would have once went and watched an alternative team when they were unable to see their  preferred one, now simply won’t go at all
 

It's all anecdotal but I reckon it still happens, although perhaps on a lesser scale. The 3pm blackout could kill it if they end up just showing Celtic/Rangers games at that time though. Definitely not saying this should happen, but I wonder if we'd see bigger crowds across the board if Celtic and Rangers never played at 3pm on a Saturday.

[velo army]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

Old firm fans will never get that you’re allowed to support a different team than your dad.

Now you tell me.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Tv gave rise to the casual football fan. The ones who watch football like I would watch tennis. I like tennis but I’m not going to sit through the world 127 playing 89. I want to see Djokovic slug it out with nadal. 

casual football fans want to either see the best football possible or support a team that wins, or both. They don’t like it enough or dedicate enough time to it to support a mid table bang average side that don’t win that often. 

At an individual level you’d probably say there’s not that much wrong with having a hobby and supporting who you want but the reality is fans of regional clubs across Europe have just been frozen out of ever having real or sustained success as a result. 

Yes, the parallel's a fair one.  

I suppose it is perfectly acceptable to have more of a passing interest in football than we do.  It's the fact that there are so many of them, however, that has allowed the CL to become such a destructive monster.

The big problem is that the wealth these casual viewers generate is not distributed In a way to provide wider boosts.  In tennis, Nadal makes a fortune which must be nice for him.  It doesn't directly make him better at tennis though.  In football, a club getting lots of money, does very directly make it better at football, which is why the likes of Chelsea and Man City have become very different entities from those they recently were.

In Scotland, we have vast numbers who are more committed than that, but are only interested in those predestined for success.

It's all about how wealth is distributed.  There will never be a willingness on the part of the big guns to share.  I wish we didn't dance to their selfish tune as willingly though.

 

[HailHailHayley]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

Old firm fans will never get that you’re allowed to support a different team than your dad.

Most people are introduced to football through their dad/family so why would you want to support somebody different? Unless your da is a w****r, there's no logic to this take at all.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, HailHailHayley said:

Most people are introduced to football through their dad/family so why would you want to support somebody different? Unless your da is a w****r, there's no logic to this take at all.

Most people like going to matches with mates when they're kids. 

Going to one near where you live makes a lot of sense.

 

 

What is it with OF fans?  The other week Kincardine said my dad was a bare faced liar; now you're calling him a w****r.  It feels a little harsh. He's quite a nice old bugger really.

[ekok]

27 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Old firm fans will never get that you’re allowed to support a different team than your dad.

What a typical ignorant,  disrespectful,  totally wrong comment.  Old Firm fans rightly get their share of grief,  they are far from being the only bigots in town.

 

 

 

[invergowrie arab]

12 minutes ago, ekok said:

What a typical ignorant,  disrespectful,  totally wrong comment.  Old Firm fans rightly get their share of grief,  they are far from being the only bigots in town.

 

 

 

Another Scotland fan going into bat for Rangers 

[mwellhighland]

When I was young I moved to a small town in the highlands roughly 200 miles from Glasgow. In a school of about 600, being a kid who loved football, I knew the team everyone supported from couple of years either side of me. Unsurprisingly I was the only Motherwell fan, there were 3 Aberdeen fans and 2 Hibs (brothers). Everyone else was either Celtic or Rangers. 90% of these people had never even been to Glasgow. 

I knew many Ross County and Inverness fans and not a single one supported them as their main team, to every single one they were their second team behind either half of the OF. Hopefully this part has changed a bit as it was before either were in the top division. 

 

[Tom Strangely Black]

21 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Silly.  I don't and I never have done.

[Tom Strangely Black]

2 hours ago, ekok said:

What a typical ignorant,  disrespectful,  totally wrong comment.  Old Firm fans rightly get their share of grief,  they are far from being the only bigots in town.

 

 

 

[Raidernation]

Old firm fans will never get that you’re allowed to support a different team than your dad.

Or whoever claims/is blamed to be your dad