How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Jinky67]

6 hours ago, ahemps said:

Why did your mum and dad refuse to buy you a Celtic top?

I was a wee mixed race guy living in a pretty shite area not very Celtic friendly so I think they thought it was one less thing I could be targeted for. 

 

[gannonball]

28 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

There's no way in f**k Celtic and Rangers fans would stick with them if they started losing a lot more games and not winning leagues and cups.  IE in some form of European league. All of them under the age of 50 have seen constant success and their brains would explode if they didn't win anything for 5,10,15 years.  Their level of maturity towards their club is infantile.

 

We already get often pummeled in Europe though and kind of know where our standing is there. A European league isn't for me but I don't think many fans would be thinking we should be winning it year on year etc.

[Jinky67]

4 hours ago, btb said:

I would love to see the OF move to the second/third tier of a pan-European set up and not be guaranteed their regular feed of trophies - see how many of their patronizing fans would still be supporting them after 10 years.

If the structure of such a Pan-European set-up afforded us opportunity to bridge a gap to the big boys then I’m open to it. I trust success would come 

I’ve said before I’d even consider a path into the English Championship 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Jinky67

[btb]

4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If the structure of such a Pan-European set-up afforded us opportunity to bridge a gap to the big boys then I’m open to it. I trust success would come 

I’ve said before I’d even consider a path into the English Championship 

We don't want you, they don't want you.

Why don't you just quit football and go and eat worms.

[Jinky67]

6 minutes ago, btb said:

We don't want you, they don't want you.

Why don't you just quit football and go and eat worms.

[Aim Here]

13 minutes ago, btb said:

We don't want you, they don't want you.

Why don't you just quit football and go and eat worms.

Waitwaitwait. You have to quit football before you eat worms?

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/sean-dyche-used-eat-live-worms-according-former-team-mate

[gannonball]

14 minutes ago, btb said:

We don't want you, they don't want you.

 

St Mirren fan saying we should 'set up shop' elsewhere...

[btb]

32 minutes ago, gannonball said:

St Mirren fan saying we should 'set up shop' elsewhere...

Nope I'm saying nobody outside of the OF wants anything to do with you.

Basically this thread comes down who is the dog and who is the tail - with Scottish Football League having 130 years of history and 40 other teams covering the bulk of the country I say in ain't you.

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

St Mirren fan saying we should 'set up shop' elsewhere...

It feels like the nuance of that was ......

[velo army]

I don't think the idea that mediocrity is somehow relative is all that weird, and that's all that @AJF was saying imo. .

There's a lack of self awareness and projection going on here, as well as a hatred of all things OF blinkering objectivity. Aberdeen have been mediocre for a few seasons, but getting to fourth and advancing in cups would be halcyon days for us. We've been mediocre for a good few seasons, but Montrose fans would be giddy at the thought of a play-off place to get to the premiership.

in short we all live in separate "realities" from each other. One club's mediocrity is another's golden period.

[VincentGuerin]

6 hours ago, bennett said:

 

That's goal post shifting, this is what I replied to "I would love to see the OF move to the second/third tier of a pan-European set up and not be guaranteed their regular feed of trophies"

2 major trophies in 10 years hasn't seen attendances plummet. 

 

6 hours ago, AJF said:

Without arguing too vociferously against the over-riding point, do you not feel that Rangers are in a significant spell of mediocrity?

Both completely missing the point. Rangers' troubles over the last decade, while fucking hilarious, were always going to end. You may say you've not won much in a decade, but you start seasons hoping to win the league, or at least challenge for it, and have done so to an extent for about five years now.

Rangers fans buying a season ticket for the League Two campaign could do so knowing that within a decade or so they'd probably see their team win the top flight again. Certainly challenge for it.

When people talk about success drying up, they mean how your support would react to decades of being asked to buy season tickets to watch a team you know won't win the league and probably won't win the cup every single season for decades. Generations coming and going.

It's not just about what you actually win. It's about what you can expect or even hope to win. 'We've only won the league once and the cup once recently' is not hardship or loyalty. Rangers' and Celtic's supports would not last long once their status as whipping boys/mediocrity in a European set-up became apparent.

[VincentGuerin]

3 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

If the structure of such a Pan-European set-up afforded us opportunity to bridge a gap to the big boys then I’m open to it. I trust success would come 

I’ve said before I’d even consider a path into the English Championship 

They're not going to give that opportunity to you any more than you give it to Hearts or Aberdeen.

On that scale you're nothing in terms of income generation, and they won't share with you.

Sorry.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, CambieBud said:

Perhaps the solution is to give Sky, BT et al exactly what they want. All 10 of the non bigots agree to play their under 8 sides against the cheeks. Goalfests every week and the only games that count are against each other. Celtic win the league with a plus 300 goal difference. 

Hey.

You didn't ask for permission or anything.

[Jinky67]

15 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

They're not going to give that opportunity to you any more than you give it to Hearts or Aberdeen.

On that scale you're nothing in terms of income generation, and they won't share with you.

Sorry.

If the worst case scenario is the status quo remains then I’m probably much more at peace with that than you.

Sorry.

[Monkey Tennis]

32 minutes ago, velo army said:

I don't think the idea that mediocrity is somehow relative is all that weird, and that's all that @AJF was saying imo. .

There's a lack of self awareness and projection going on here, as well as a hatred of all things OF blinkering objectivity. Aberdeen have been mediocre for a few seasons, but getting to fourth and advancing in cups would be halcyon days for us. We've been mediocre for a good few seasons, but Montrose fans would be giddy at the thought of a play-off place to get to the premiership.

in short we all live in separate "realities" from each other. One club's mediocrity is another's golden period.

There's nothing to argue with there.

However, whether Rangers' form over recent seasons is regarded by their fans as satisfactory or not, the fact is that they've won very much more often than they've lost during that time.  That's more pertinent than whether we call it mediocrity.

That's the thing that lots of us think contributes to their popularity.  That's the thing that might be tested if they played in an altogether different environment.

We saw with that banner aimed at Beale after the cup tie with Thistle that for lots of them, winning really is all that could possibly matter, and that doesn't change, even if the opponent is comparatively tiny, and they do in fact win anyway.

I'll say again that most OF fans have a very different relationship with their club and indeed with football, from the rest of us.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Monkey Tennis

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

If the structure of such a Pan-European set-up afforded us opportunity to bridge a gap to the big boys then I’m open to it. I trust success would come 

I’ve said before I’d even consider a path into the English Championship 

There is a path to The Championship. It starts on public parks in England.

[Dons_1988]

59 minutes ago, velo army said:

I don't think the idea that mediocrity is somehow relative is all that weird, and that's all that @AJF was saying imo. .

There's a lack of self awareness and projection going on here, as well as a hatred of all things OF blinkering objectivity. Aberdeen have been mediocre for a few seasons, but getting to fourth and advancing in cups would be halcyon days for us. We've been mediocre for a good few seasons, but Montrose fans would be giddy at the thought of a play-off place to get to the premiership.

in short we all live in separate "realities" from each other. One club's mediocrity is another's golden period.

I feel like this was aimed at me seeing as you talked about Aberdeen. 

It would be stupid to say that relativity doesn’t exist here or that different clubs have different expectations or measurements of success. 

It was put out there that attendances hadn’t fallen despite all the mediocrity at rangers, but rangers relative mediocrity is pretty irrelevant in this discussion. Mediocrity relative to the average club is much more relevant and by any objective measure the experience of being a rangers fan doesn’t qualify. They had the second biggest budget in the country in league 2 FFS. They go into every domestic game as favourites apart from against one team. Even scooshing the lower leagues was probably fun as a one off ‘journey’. 

Aberdeens relative success might be higher than st mirrens but let’s not pretend you look at us thinking f**k I wish that was us! We finished 4th in a season we also went 10 (TEN) games without even scoring a goal. 

[HibsFan]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

I don't think the idea that mediocrity is somehow relative is all that weird, and that's all that @AJF was saying imo. .

There's a lack of self awareness and projection going on here, as well as a hatred of all things OF blinkering objectivity. Aberdeen have been mediocre for a few seasons, but getting to fourth and advancing in cups would be halcyon days for us. We've been mediocre for a good few seasons, but Montrose fans would be giddy at the thought of a play-off place to get to the premiership.

in short we all live in separate "realities" from each other. One club's mediocrity is another's golden period.

Mediocrity is obviously relative, nobody is trying to dispute that.

What I, and any right-minded poster, is saying that - even for a club like Rangers - calling European final + Scottish Cup + League title in the past 24 months “mediocrity” is a ludicrous shout.

The only way it could be mediocre is if you’ve signed up to support Rangers with the expectation that they win everything and dominate everyone. In which case, you have the mentality and worldview of an egotistic child.

[Sortmeout]

7 hours ago, AJF said:

Why didn't our attendances go down dramatically when we finished 3rd twice in a row in the Premiership?

Probably because you hired a manager in the middle of that who banned your players from having green boots and the majority of your dumb fans lapped it up and forgot about the football.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Sortmeout

[btb]

In terms of the OF getting into a hypothetical Euro League (my original point) mediocrity isn't the point, they could be playing to their potential and still be losing more games than they win - how many of their fans would stick with them in those circumstances.? When was the last time either of them had even 1 losing season, never mind 3/4 in a row?